[charleso]

All of this 'Nokia is doomed because of their Microsoft partnership' talk reminds me of when Apple announced something similar back in 1997. Anyone remember this Steve Jobs talk from when Apple was on the financial ropes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY

If you think Nokia is doomed, you might want to re-watch that video. Things didn't turn out quite so bad for Apple.

[gamble]

Except Apple didn't put NT on its computers.

[charleso]

But Apple did make Microsoft Internet Explorer the default browser on the Mac, which was Microsoft's battlefield at the time.

[rbanffy]

The browser is not part of the core of the operating system. And it was far less an important part of the user experience at that time.

[charleso]

"At that time" Microsoft ruled everything except for the browser. The public internet was emerging as a surprisingly powerful force against the desktop and the argument before the courts was that the browser WAS part of the core operating system and could not be removed.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft :

Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer was the result of innovation and competition, that the two were now the same product and were inextricably linked together and that consumers were now getting all the benefits of IE for free.

It doesn't look like much now, but installing IE as the default browser on Mac was a pretty big deal at the time. Microsoft won the 'browser wars' due to this and other key moves.

Today, the 'wars' are in the handheld o/s and default search engines. Microsoft is again making shrewd moves in those battles and their partners are far from guaranteed to die as a result of their alliances.

Somehow, despite their Microsoft partnership, Apple managed to do a bit better than simply scrape by. I'm sure Nokia will see a similar recovery over the next few years.

[rbanffy]

Well... At least IE wasn't an integral part of MacOS...

[Anechoic]

> And it was far less an important part of the user experience at that time

I don't think that's necessarily true. The browser was an extremely important part of the user experience, but 2 things happened: 1) MS stopped developing IE which allowed Mozilla and Apple to leap frog MS in terms of user experience, and 2) the iPod came along which became a gateway drug to Macs and helped Apple become what it is today.

However the 90's Apple/today's Nokia analogy only fits if Nokia has something outside of phones that it can use to grow it's business. It remains to be seen if that's the case.

There's also the problem that Apple became more insular in terms of developing the whole widget and making sure it wasn't dependent (as much as it could) on ISVs while Nokia seems to be going in the exact opposite direction.

[yuhong]

Yea, it was nothing compared with the attempt to integrate IE with the Windows shell and make it's renderer a core system component. BTW, WebKit is also a core system component on Mac OS X now, yet it is updated as part of Safari.

[bandushrew]

hmmm? not that it is the slightest bit relevant, but I dont think webkit is a core component on mac os x, unless you are using the word differently than I would have expected?

[gamble]

That's fair. They did work pretty hard to get rid of it and regain control of their platform, though. I hope Nokia will make the same effort.