[apsec112]

Electricity is rapidly switching over to renewable sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics

Having an electric car fleet means that transportation will get greener "automatically", as the power grid switches over to wind and solar. Having a fossil fuel car fleet means you're screwed no matter what happens in the electricity sector. Having a smaller fossil fuel car fleet just means that you're screwed a little more slowly.

[weberc2]

I would also expect that it’s easier to address the co2 output of a single coal plant than a million cars due to economies of scale. The solution space for internal combustion engines is constrained by size, weight, and serviceability which is less an issue for power plants. Note that this is not to say that we shouldn’t prefer green energy, only that it shouldn’t deter us from investing in electric cars.

[Iwan-Zotow]

coal production is growing for the last three years

[Arnt]

Is it indeed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production needs an update then.

Makes sense, though... Assuming that a coal plant's going to be hopelessly unprofitable the next time it needs maintenance, it does make a certain sense to use it harshly now and wear out every moving part.

[Iwan-Zotow]

> Is it indeed?

Sure, https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lignite/coal-production-d...

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production needs an update then.

And I know of a brave man who could do it

> Assuming that a coal plant's going to be hopelessly unprofitable the next time it needs maintenance

How come? See no reason for that

[Arnt]

That link says two years, actually. 2016 dropped from 2015, 2017 and 2018 increased, nothing is specified for 2019. Are you saying there was another increase in 2019?

I assume that coal plants become unprofitable once they need considerable maintenance because they're not being built any more, which I assume means that no investors consider them a worthwhile investment. Further, because the price of solar and wind power is dropping. If the price curves continue as in the past decade, then in a few years, building a new solar plant becomes cheaper than operating an existing power plant in the first parts of the world. At that point, what coal plant owner will spend money on signfificant maintenance?

[Iwan-Zotow]

> Are you saying there was another increase in 2019?

Data not yet out, but yes, I believe so. There is a prediction it would rise till 2022 though not yet reaching the peak of 2013.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/20190306-coal.html

> I assume that coal plants become unprofitable once they need considerable maintenance because they're not being built any more

mmm... not sure this is true about coal plants not being build. China and India I believe still building them.

> Further, because the price of solar and wind power is dropping.

well, while they are dropping, coal production is gorwing three years in a row (and potentially another three years in making).

> hen in a few years, building a new solar plant becomes cheaper

and what people supposed to do by night?

You recognize, that even if you saturate your grid by solar electricity from, say, 11 to 5, there are still 18 hours left...

[njb311]

Renewable energy storage is a solved problem, with a number of techniques already in use. It is a recognised part of the scaling-up of renewables generation by the grid operators, along with the knowledge that grids themselves need to be updated. But the idea that somehow energy experts are slapping their foreheads thinking 'OMG how did we miss this' is slightly insulting.