[xedeon]

You mean the $451.8M Department of Energy loan they used to buy the old NUMMI Toyata plant? Yeah.... They paid that off nine years early with interest. Try again.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-lo...

Meanwhile, why don't we talk about the GM bailout money?

If you can cite a source for the "billions" you mentioned, that would be great to read, since I must've missed that one.

[_ea1k]

I'm pretty sure that Tesla managed to get at least 400,000 cars sold in the US before fully phasing out of the tax credit. That's between 1.5 billion and 2.5 billion, depending upon how you estimate it.

EDIT: Also, this amounts to fewer than 50,000 cars in revenue. Sales restrictions in various states have probably cost them more in sales than they gained in tax benefits.

[xedeon]

I'm not sure you understand how the BEV tax credit works. First of all, it's the customer that gets the refund NOT Tesla.

Second, the buyer has to owe enough in liabilities to be even be eligible for it.

[_ea1k]

I absolutely do understand that. But there are economic principles at play here too. A $7,500 rebate is effectively a lower price without costing the manufacturer anything.

While it is true that the buy has to meet the $7,500 threshold for that to work (which is not insignificant) for much of the lifespan of rebate availability, the cars were averaging >60k. Hopefully most people buying cars in that price range have incomes that make $7,500 in tax rebates possible.

By the time that the prices had dropped to 50k, the rebates where closer to $3,700. How many were sold at each range and what percentage of the rebate was accessible? Hard to say... thus the range of possible subsidies.

Either way, though, this was effectively a big help to the business.

[davidgould]

It is now a hindrance as every other EV maker (except soon GM) gets the subsidy to compete against Tesla which no longer does.

[_ea1k]

Yeah, definitely... and it looks like Ford might actually enter the phaseout next, making it purely a subsidy for foreign automakers.

[WBrad]

Keep in mind I said "Elon's companies", not "Tesla"

$4.9 Billion in subsidies as of 2015 across 3 companies

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...

We can talk about Gm if you want but I don't see how its relevant to my original point. Are there gas stations where only GM cars can fill up?

[xedeon]

Again, that article is inferring that Solar and BEV (Alternative fuel and Energy Source) sales equates to Elon getting government money.

Everything that generates a receipt or purchase order when dealing with the U.S. government is a publicly available record and can be requested via the FOIA act (Just like the DEO grant).

Did you notice how none of that where presented in the article you linked?