[darkerside]

When one of those black boxes malfunctions it gets taken off the road. When the AI malfunctions, are we going to shut down entire classes of vehicles until the problem is confirmed fixed?

Not to mention that most software fixes cause other bugs...

[jsolson]

In an extreme example I expect that's precisely what would happen. Consider what's currently unfolding around the 737 Max. In the automotive space there's a long history of serious flaws that resulted in loss of life, ranging from faulty airbag deployment systems to flawed designs for ignition systems.

We have precedent for how we qualify and evaluate things for safety: test them across a variety of conditions, accumulate driver-miles or operator-hours and incident frequencies. Then, using that data establish a bar for what constitutes an acceptable level of risk given the utility something provides. If we wanted to ensure nobody ever died in a car accident, we would ensure there were no cars, but collectively we've made a different choice.

[darkerside]

We've made a choice to allow people to kill each other in cars from time to time, but that's different from choosing to allow automated cars to kill anybody. Knowing human nature, I don't think the general public will accept double digit automated deaths without an outcry.

Shutting down a plane is completely different from taking an entire class of publicly owned vehicles off the road. People will be furious.

Yes, they will be furious about the deaths and the shutdown, both. Don't forget that people are made up of individuals.

[runarb]

> When the AI malfunctions, are we going to shut down

> entire classes of vehicles until the problem is confirmed fixed?

Yes, a malfunction AI would have to be grounded, just like for example the Boeing 737 MAX is now.

[dx034]

Or a car model with severe problems. This rarely (if ever) happens because with that many cars, severe problems tend to be noticed fairly quickly. That shouldn't change with self driving cars. With several million miles driven each day for more popular models, even rare edge cases should appear within days.

[Erlich_Bachman]

> are we going to shut down entire classes of vehicles until the problem is confirmed fixed?

Yes of course we will. What is the problem with that approach? That is the exactly logical thing to do and will be done.

[toasterlovin]

At least the software is fixable. Other humans are not.

[FriendlyNormie]

At least other humans fear death as a consequence of driving incorrectly. Computers do not.

[jsolson]

Some humans, when seeking to end their own lives, end the lives of others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

That's an extreme example, but automotive suicides that kill other passengers, drivers, or pedestrians fall into the same category. Consider also deaths from accidents involving drunk driving or fatigue -- thousands of motorists take to the roads every day modified in one manner or another that reduces their driving aptitude.

Also, while it may be correct to say that computers don't "fear death", there's no reason that "risk to self" can't be part of the criteria for decision making by an autonomous system.

[beejee]

Too many people still driving around drunk sadly counters that point.

[darkerside]

Humans are fixable in that they are held accountable. One person can be taken off the road if they are unfit to drive. (Revoke license, imprison, etc). Then the incident has become Someone's Fault, and society can move on.

[toasterlovin]

I’d personally rather have less death and mayhem than be able to blame someone for it...

[darkerside]

That's a fine opinion, but it's the minority. Maybe not in the abstract, but as soon as you have unexplainable deaths (meaning there's nobody to blame), people freak the fuck out.