[endothrowho333]

Would it be correct to say your brother is also not the type to network with others easily?

An automated system is the last-line in hiring; recommendations -- internal and external -- are the first-line. If one finds themselves in a position where they're manually submitting cold resumes, it's almost always more productive to start networking into the companies you want to work at, and getting the recommendation firsthand, turning your resume into a hot one.

[danpalmer]

That would be correct.

> recommendations -- internal and external -- are the first-line

I'm afraid this is a very tech-centric view. Outside of a few specific industries or the very top levels, this is essentially unheard of.

My brother's educational background is biomedical sciences so he's looking for essentially lab work doing analysis for a hospital, drug company, or similar. There are a fair few jobs doing it, but they are relatively low level, have no "community", no real way to facilitate referrals.

In tech it's easy to "network into companies" because companies are so open with their hiring – they hold events, they sponsor conferences that are priced so that people can pay their own entry, and there are community events where you can meet people from them. This is very far from the norm, until you get to the golf clubs where you can mingle with other execs.

[Enginerrrd]

No, this is how it works in almost every industry. Even if that's how they try and force hires into the pipeline, if you're simply accepting that instead of circumventing it, you're success rate must be abysmal.

I don't work in tech. But I've got about a 60% lifetime success rate (Job offers to applications). 100% once I got to the interview stage. And that's in a variety of industries: EMS, academic research, the energy industry, and civil/environmental engineering.

I swear nobody has any hustle anymore. I've never bothered to make a LinkedIn or go to "networking" or "hiring" events. They're a waste of time. If you're really out of your existing network (you're probably already doing something seriously wrong if that's the case), you'd be better off figuring out where you want to work and then waiting at a nearby lunch spot for an obvious group of employees to come in around lunchtime (or after work drinks) and start chatting them up. (I actually landed a job doing that.) Or better yet, find a CrossFit gym some of them go to. Sweat and bleed and bond with someone a bit before you leverage them as a recommendation. There's a million ways into an organization if you want it badly enough. If nothing else you can get super good intelligence on how to craft your application to be desireable.

Do your research, know your shit, know exactly what they're looking for before you ever turn in an application. Become that person to the core. Get any new certifications you need to be that person. Make every document you turn in to apply for the position fit that profile. Make every searchable piece of information about you on the internet align with that profile. Know the way they conduct interviews before you get there, and practice and rehearse the questions and flow of your responses in broad ways. Leverage your contacts in the organization to get information about each of the interviewers and how they think and approach interviews.

You know, hustle.

[danpalmer]

> you'd be better off figuring out where you want to work and then waiting at a nearby lunch spot for an obvious group of employees to come in around lunchtime (or after work drinks) and start chatting them up

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're either a US citizen, or at least base this advice on the US.

I have only known 1, possibly 2 people who can make this sort of thing work here in the UK, people just don't do this.

Plus, CrossFit isn't really a thing here except in trendy bits of London. For many of these places there isn't a "lunch spot", people take their lunch in to their building in a business park where there's no lunch options or options for socialising.

Overall, while you don't work in tech, I think you're probably privileged enough to work in an industry that works pretty similarly. Most of your advice would be pretty good for me, but almost none of it would work for someone at the beginning of their career, aiming for a large company with out of town offices – a fairly typical starting point for many graduates.

[Enginerrrd]

Yeah, I am American, and I definitely understand there's certain informalities available to us here culturally.

I think the key for new graduates is to have been thinking about getting a job for the last 4-5 years. Don't start looking and preparing when you graduate, you're already behind.

I kept a job I started as a teen as a lifeguard for like 6 or 7 years even though there were much better opportunities available to me financially because I knew the stability was one of the best things I could bring to the table. Resume building.

But in addition to that, I started networking long before I left school. It's essential. Despite the fact that culture may differ in other countries, I don't think that fundamentally changes my advice. The tactics may differ, but the strategy is the same because human nature is the same.

[Permit]

> There are a fair few jobs doing it, but they are relatively low level, have no "community", no real way to facilitate referrals

I’m only tangentially exposed to the biomedical field but I’m fairly sure this isn’t broadly true. I’m a member of a single cell RNA sequencing slack group whose members host a meetup twice a month. Most members work in wetlabs and many conduct research into the effects of various drugs on cancer.

The groups are probably harder to find (than programming meetups) but I doubt there are none of them.