[aylmao]

> Part of the problem is that there are too many edge cases.

IMO, if there was the will to build a better system there would be a better system. There's a lot of edge-cases in space travel, or medicine, but there was will to put very smart people with very powerful computers to work on both of these, and now we have rockets that land on drone ships and medications that can control HIV.

> The biggest issue with any tax is the disproportionate impact on middle tier/s.

How do other countries do it? There's countries with a healthy middle class, why isn't the US's thriving like theirs?

[kortilla]

> There's countries with a healthy middle class, why isn't the US's thriving like theirs?

Someone tricked you. The US has one of the richest middle classes in the world. A CEO being paid obscenely has absolutely no impact on the middle class, it just makes a nice boogeyman for politicians.

[dctoedt]

> A CEO being paid obscenely has absolutely no impact on the middle class, it just makes a nice boogeyman for politicians.

Except that envy is part of the human condition, and arguably, a key component of human progress. Left unchecked, though, envy can lead to social instability. See, e.g., Kahneman and Tversky's work about how people are willing to incur harm to themselves to punish what they perceive as unfairness (sorry, no time to get the cite). So arranging our societal structures to keep envy in check might be necessary, even if it means giving some high earners a haircut on their income.

[thaumasiotes]

Rich and healthy aren't the same thing. What's the American middle class fertility rate?

Of course, by this metric the successful countries are all in Africa. It will be an interesting future.

[sokoloff]

Do we have some critical shortage of people that I'm not aware of?

[thaumasiotes]

If your idea of the health of Japan is totally disconnected from whether the Japanese -- technically -- exist, then no, we don't.

When the English and the Germans came to North America and replaced the population there, was that a success for North America? If so, is it the kind of success you'd like to have someone else give to you?

[sokoloff]

Over 10s of generations, I'm not especially worried about the trivial differences in the genetic ancestry of the people who live in a given country.

[thaumasiotes]

Most people don't wish to die for their ideology. You may be an exception. I doubt it, but if so, you're welcome to it.

[AdrianB1]

Please give a few examples of countries with a healthy middle class; in Europe, where I know the situation best, there are no such countries anymore. The Emirates have some, but they have zero income tax, so it is politically not correct to use it as an example.

[jononor]

You have not defined middle class, so there is danger of operating with different standard. But people in Scandinavia do pretty well, overall.

[krab]

> How do other countries do it?

The system in each country is very complex and it's hard to tell which parts make it work better and which parts make it worse than another. The effects are all related.

First of all, the middle class is not well defined in many of the popular articles. There can also be a significant difference between middle class defined by income vs. by self-identification. See Figure 1.1 in [oecd]. I'd start with the premise that the US is an outlier in many areas - tax system, health care, pensions, education... All of which dramatically changes how the middle class is able to structure its finances.

My guess is that many of the US citizens have higher disposable funds in absolute value than Europeans but it helps them mostly in international travel and when buying easily transportable goods. Not as much in day-to-day living.

I'll try to compare with my country (Central Europe, laws similar to Germany's but with slightly worse execution). There's a healthy middle class but according to studies, it's shrinking. It seems middle class is shrinking worldwide. Even the [oecd] study I link is named "Under Pressure: The Squeezed Middle Class". I think this feeling also led to the rise of populist governments in many of the European countries.

I'll give some facts first, then try to interpret them:

- Effective tax rate at ~50 - 60 % for employees, ~30 % for IT freelancers. I'm including mandatory social and health insurance.

- Median wage: $15,500/year, typical IT wage around me: $30 - $60,000/year.

- Supermarket cashier earns 85 % of median wage, public bus driver at around the median.

- Served restaurant lunch (just meal) costs ~$7, dinner ~$10.

- Appartments cost (capital city) at around $300/sq ft

- Most (78 % [wiki]) of people own their housing (vs. 65 % in USA).

- Mortgage rates are at 2.5 % APR, some going as low as 2 % APR (10 years fixed), inflation at similar levels (last year around 2.8 %).

- I know personally just two people who went to private universities (one because he liked the school, the other one because it was easier) and no one who went to private primary or high school. The public schools are generally free.

- My family's out of pocket medical expenses amounted to $ 500 last year, mostly over-the-counter medication for our two kids (common cold, cough, supplements, vaccinations...).

- In hospital, you can pay around ~$10/night for the privilege of a private room but there's usually a shortage of them. There wasn't a shortage 10 years ago. People just weren't used to paying in hospitals.

- The medical services are free. There was a HUGE political fight around paying $4 flat for emergency (out of working hours) doctor visits.

- Fuel is taxed at 30 % extra to VAT, there are similar extra taxes for tobacco and alcohol.

- When you buy a real estate, you're immediately taxed 4 % of the value.

- Only 20 % of people use credit cards. Most of the credit is mortgages (which were mostly profitable due to rising prices so far) or car leasing. Outside of these bigger tickets, most of the credit seekers are low income.

I feel I live in a safe environment, the public transport is well functioning and clean (daily user). You can screw up, not save for some time, get ill and you're still likely to recover financially even if you work for a median wage. You may not be able to buy housing if your parents can't help you.

But in general, I think the ability to experiment a bit and a general feel of stability allows for much more effective negotiations with employers, even for comparatively lower income people, driving minimal wages down. On the other hand, because so big share of the money goes through the government, there are many inefficiencies.

If I moved for example to the US, I might end up in higher percentile of earners and most probably I'd have more money to spend on international travel and electronics. On the other hand there are the costs of the move (family away, frequent travel across ocean) and it would be partly paid off by worse public services and higher risks if unemployed/ill.

[oecd]: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/689afed1-en/1/2/1/index....

[wiki]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne...