[pjmlp]

So 10 years from now those that don't want to be a mix of graphical developer, driver author and compiler designers, have to keep using a frozen API from 2018, without any access to whatever has changed on their computers during the next decade.

All because providing something like MetalKit or DirectXTK is too much to ask for to Khronos and LunarG.

[DiabloD3]

But should it change? There are issues where updating OpenGL support in drivers broke earlier apps due to accidental changes in how existing features were implemented.

Vulkan and DX12 are far less likely to break existing apps i the future due to far fewer core features.

It makes no sense to have what is essentially an entire legacy middleware in the driver when it no longer represents modern hardware.

Unlike GLES, OpenGL basically can never deprecate features, and D3D9 support will never, truly, die. It's a lot easier to just package a universal shim into existing legacy apps than it is to keep mangling drivers over the issue.

[pjmlp]

> It makes no sense to have what is essentially an entire legacy middleware in the driver when it no longer represents modern hardware.

Exactly, but it is the only API that Khronos is offering for those that don't want to be Vulkan experts.

Which leaves middleware engines, something totally unrelated to Khronos APIs, as the only future proof path for accessing GPU features on modern hardware.

As for drivers breaking down, the main reason why Vulkan is now compulsory on Android as of version 10, is because while it was optional, the few OEMs that bothered to support it did a very lousy job, so Google hopes by making it compulsory and part of Android CTS, the situation will improve.

[atq2119]

> Vulkan and DX12 are far less likely to break existing apps i the future due to far fewer core features.

This is questionable. Vulkan by definition has basically no error checking in the driver, and while developers are supposed to use the validation layer, they may not do so, and even if they do, there are certain plenty of incorrect things an application can do that won't be caught by validation.

Incorrect programs may still happen to run correctly on existing drivers, but then fail with a driver update that happens to change the undefined behavior.

[loup-vaillant]

C compiler writers have answered that conundrum a long time ago: "if you (even accidentally) rely on undefined behaviour, the warranty is void".

I don't necessarily agree, but if we have a way to avoid undefined behaviour (and at least in C there are ways to make pretty thorough checks), then it works in practice.

[pjmlp]

The checks that according to most surveys and security reports are used by a tiny part of the C community?

If it doesn't work for C regarding mainstream adoption, how come it will work for Vulkan?

[loup-vaillant]

It won't, unless only a fairly small elite ends up using Vulkan. And I believe that's what will happen indeed: Vulkan is low level enough that most likely, only engine devs and middleware devs will touch it.

You will of course have the occasional cowboy (which I personally am, though in a different domain), but that shouldn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

Now if you ask me, Vulkan is not enough. What we really want is a stable, usable hardware interface. Basically an ISA. The thing will have close to zero bug, because hardware folks know how to properly test their designs. Undefined behaviour is likely unavoidable, but I believe it can be reduced to a reasonable minimum.

If AMD and NVidia started something like RISC-V, except for graphics cards, it will likely have a greater impact than RISC-V itself.