[alinajaf]

> But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.

This is unnecessarily dangerous. You can go to a Muay Thai class, train up for a few months and kick three shades of shit out of each other if you want to. The difference is that with experienced teachers who will show you how to avoid injuries, the likelihood of serious accidents goes down.

Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid.

> ...participants are closeted homosexuals, and that being gay is a bad thing.

No one said being gay was a bad thing. Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.

[thunk]

> Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid.

Sometimes it's OK to just be stupid, and uneducatedly kick the shit out of each other, as long as cries of "Uncle" are respected. The lack of framework and authority is important for some types of catharsis.

> Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.

My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.

[alinajaf]

> Sometimes it's OK to just be stupid, and uneducatedly kick the shit out of each other, as long as cries of "Uncle" are respected. The lack of framework and authority is important for some types of catharsis.

To each his own I suppose. Actually I felt this when going from Kendo to BJJ. Kendo being a bit more traditional Japanese and regimented. It was incredibly refreshing being thrown into the deep end with seemingly little structure and to train to Cypress Hill and Slipknot.

Still, I'm of the opinion that a bunch of dudes kicking the crap out of each other in a garage is a step too far.

> My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.

Fair enough.

[onan_barbarian]

If you think it's OK to just be stupid in this context you have no idea what you're talking about. If they need catharsis, I suggest they beat up a pillow while screaming about their Daddy, or their ex-wife, or whatever their major malfunction is.

It stops being 'ok' and safe when you have a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're doing. For example, when one idiot heel-hooks another idiot and idiot #2 decides to tough it out (thinking a rotational leg lock can be resisted like an armbar for a while), idiot #2 is likely going to spend some quality time with a surgeon. When idiot #3 decides that a crucifix is a perfectly good takedown response because they saw it in the UFC, idiot #4 is going to spend two weeks with a funny feeling in his neck. etc. etc... I can populate this list out to about idiot #20 or so, striking and grappling. There are a lot of bits of the human body that just don't fix themselves; worth thinking about before trying this stuff on.

As for chronic non-participant, well, I've been rolling around in the guard and the mount with other guys since 1995 (Judo, submission grappling, BJJ) without any gay panic. And I've seen my fair share of creepazoid 'fight clubs' where there's 1-2 bigger guys who are (a) rubbish grapplers and (b) strangely interested in rolling with weaker, smaller, prettier guys, so it's not such a 'cheap jab'.

[true_religion]

The likelihood of serious accidents goes down, but it doesn't go down to zero.

So choosing a no-rules barred fight club versus a boxing ring is a matter of line drawing, and judgement calls.

Many people draw the line at no fighting at all, and call all boxers "stupid". Is that fair? And if it isn't, why is it fair for you to call Fight Clubbers stupid simply because they're willing to expose themselves to more risk than you?

Fight Club isn't a direct equivalent of Boxing/Muy Thai/etc. with merely added risk of injury.

[prawn]

"Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid."

Free climbing a rock face vs taking the stairs?

People get their kicks in different ways.

[dagw]

There are lots of ways to go about free climbing a rock face, and many ways to make it safer or more dangerous. Most climbers I know are extremely safety conscious and go to great length minimizing the risk they put themselves in.

[bmj]

Agreed. My family climbs outdoors probably 150+ days a year, including bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing. While I've done some things that some might consider dangerous, it really is about minimizing risk and being in control of the situation. Certainly, it is still dangerous, but, again, much of what we do attempts to minimize the danger.

I am far more fearful when I see people randomly scrambling without any regard for their situation. I've seen people get themselves in really bad situations because they don't assess things and think about consequences.

[prawn]

Sure, but it'd be a hell of a lot safer to climb up the back slope of a mountain or run around the block. My point is that everything has varying degrees of challenge, risk, thrill, etc and these 'fight club' guys have chosen theirs.