[asjw]

So are wasted fumes coming from your car, without the benefits

The same can be said for barbeques

When will people stop pretending that changing one thing doesn't really change anything in life in general?

Drinking is like everything else: if you do it with moderation it is not that harmful

If you don't, you got bigger problems

[f_nachos]

If you're implying that I am overestimating risk by comparing it to barbecued meat and exposure to vehicle exhaust then I would say that maybe you're underestimating risk from those two things.

I personally avoid barbecued meat for that exact reason, as well as refrain as much as possible from huffing exhaust fumes. If a lifestyle that allowed me to avoid being near cars were reasonably easy to achieve I would choose it. Because as you say, car exhaust is neurotoxic and carcinogenic.

[asjw]

I work in healthcare in Italy, where we live more than anyone else in the World, on average, except for the Japanese.

You are overestimating the causality between consumption and actual damages.

Consumption is ok, abuse is not.

Even too many showers can kill your skin

Of course if you have a condition even a simple contact can be deadly (think about favism)

And of course people are free to not drink, there's no shame in that, but don't think that it will give you more chances to have a long life than someone who drinks moderately

It's like smoking, it is bad, you shouldn't do it, but truth is that smoking a couple cigarettes a day is like not smoking at all

Paracelso said, many centuries ago, that it's t he dose that makes the poison and it's still true.

[alt_f4]

> Drinking is like everything else: if you do it with moderation it is not that harmful

No it's not.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...

[asjw]

Do you know the difference between "completely safe" and "not that harmful"?

Not even walking on the streets is completely safe

Unintentional injuries is te the leading cause of death in US for people aged between 1 and 44 years.

They kill 170 thousands people on average, while alcohol related deaths are 88 thousands (including car accidents)

The first cause of death in US is heart disease, I bet you still eat bacon though...

Alcohol abuse is dangerous, alcohol per se is as dangerous as driving your car (probably less, there are over 2.2 milion people injured every year by crashes)

[jakemal]

It looks like you are citing the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK1_2015.pdf) study. They define poisoning (including by alcohol) as an unintentional injury. So that 88 thousand is included in the 170 thousand that you are comparing it to.

[asjw]

Let's talk real numbers.

Alcohol kills directly through alcohol poisoning 2 thousands people / year in the US

It's around 6 people a day

In US about 19.5 thousands people/year die for accidental poisoning

It means than for every death caused by alcohol poisoning there are almost 10 caused by other substances

If that wasn't enough, in 2017 in US 70 thousands people have died for drug overdose, of which 50 thousands were caused by opioids, of which 50% (25 thousands) were prescription drugs

2017 saw a rise in drug overdose cases of 10% compared to the year before

So how we end up with the 88 thousands deaths for alcohol related problems?

Because we count them as related, for example if there's car crash and in one of the victims blood stream a BAC of 0.08 g/dL or greater is found, it is considered alcohol related

Nobody count it as drug related or poison related if drugs or other poisons are found in the blood stream

Nobody even look for them usually, unless it's a violent crime

Half of the liver disease are counted as alcohol related, the stats says "involved alcohol" they don't say they were caused by alcohol, but even if they were (which is entirely possible, alcohol is toxic for liver) nobody count drug related liver diseases or poison related ones, even though drugs and poisons are toxic for the liver

Official stats count alcohol related deaths as "alcohol misuse" not consumption, while prescribed medical drugs consumption is responsible for half of the deaths for opioid overdose, and there are 12 of them for every death due to alcohol poisoning

I think I made the point

I think US has an addiction problem and their policies "all or nothing" don't work

People, especially young people, binge drink because they don't develop over the years a mature, responsible interaction with substances

It's either you drink to death or you show your "alcohol free" coin to the world (which is another addiction BTW)

Recently two young Americans have killed a cop in Rome while on holiday, after abusing of alcohol and cocaine

That part of Rome, Trastevere, is a well known spot to find American students that literally trash themselves drinking, because they are not used to being free to drink in their country

It's a social problem and I think won't be addressed anytime soon, because it cannot be cured with a pill, it requires public investment in education and psychological support and sadly it's not something US is good at

Last but not least, the national institute on alcohol abuse and alcoholism (nih) reports that "More than 10 percent of U.S. children live with a parent with alcohol problems, according to a 2012 study."

https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/Spot061Child...

Alcohol problems means heavy drinker

Heavy drinker means binge drinking 5 or more days in the past month, according to the official definition

It means that one kids in ten has at least one parent who is an addict.

Alcohol is just the cheapest and easier to find of the drugs, that's why it's so common in the US to count alcohol related deaths and not drug related ones, because US would have to admit to have a serious addiction problem and to be doing nothing about it

Better blame the usual suspect

[f_nachos]

I don't think you're making the case for the safety of consuming alcohol. One could argue you were actually making the opposite case.

[asjw]

I'm not making a case for the safety of consuming alcohol, I'm just saying that alcohol is a broad and complex phenomenon, we as human have been drinking it for thousands of years, it is engrained in many cultures, it requires a more in depth analysis that "it gives you cancer"

[cyorir]

Note that the original poster states that they are drinking in binge episodes of up to 10 drinks. That is certainly not moderation.