[notJim]

> non-smokers should not have to pay the insurance costs of smokers

The very idea of insurance becomes toxic when you start to pursue this idea. Everyone has some non-virtuous behavior we can identify in order to exclude them. Maybe your colon cancer is because you didn't eat enough fiber, so we're going to cut you off too.

All of this is why it makes no sense to have multiple "pools" for health insurance, because then it creates incentives for people like private insurance companies or employers to cherry-pick the healthiest people for their pool.

[Red_Leaves_Flyy]

What costs more for health insurers?

A cigarette smoker that dies between 40-70 with what treatments for diabetes, bloodpressure, asthma, copd, and a heart attack before cigarettes kill them young?

A non smoker that lives to 105 but needs two hip replacements, cancer treatments, and assisted living between 60-80, then round the clock care for the next 25 years?

[StanislavPetrov]

Obesity is far more widespread than smoking and costs everyone far more money. Should we cut off fat people from healthcare too?

[mytailorisrich]

> The very idea of insurance becomes toxic when you start to pursue this idea

Not really. In general an insurance protects you against risks outside of your control and/or they penalise you for increased risk, and will refuse to pay for intentional losses. We all experience this with car and home insurances.

Smoking and its health consequences are a personal decision and there is an argument that you should not expect others to subsidise your life choices.

That being said, in many countries smokers are indeed made to pay because tobacco products are heavily taxed and proceeds are used to fund healthcare.

In fact, I believe that for example in the UK taxes on tobacco products bring in more money than smoking costs the health service.

[incangold]

As someone who took up smoking when I was young, stupid, and vulnerable, describing it as a personal decision doesn’t fit my reality. I quit eventually but it took 15 years of stop-start, combined with a constant, desperate sense of guilt and failure.

There are limits to free will. Depressed, anxious, abused and sick people are statistically more likely to make poor life choices. Let’s give them a break.

Agree with what you say though. I live in the uk and it did ease the guilt a little knowing that I was at least paying my way.

[Red_Leaves_Flyy]

Tobacco companies, and really every major branded company product, rely on manipulating shoppers vulnerabilities to make money. Advertising has caused a lot of problems that we cannot address until we excise the source.

I'm fully supportive of banning all substance use from tv that is not made by a nonprofit for educational purposes, forcing all substances to use generic black and white labels that Are only differentiated by the brand name written in size 12 font on the back of the container with the warning labels in size 16+ font on the front. Likewise banning all advertisements, and the sale/distribution of branded products associated with companies that sell drugs.

[mytailorisrich]

Some vulnerable people will always make bad decisions, be it smoking, alcohol, drugs, or what not.

But the point remains that smoking is overwhelmingly a personal decision.

[pirocks]

It's commonly stated(Idk how true it is) that smokers cost the NHS less thank non-smokers because they die much more quickly.