[Zenbit_UX]

> young people can't afford bikes due to student debt and other debt.

I find comments like these interesting because it shows a fundamentally different perspective on motorcycling.

It sounds like you view it as a hobby or pastime, and an expensive one at that, likely because you see it as something to purchase after already owning a car.

I see it as a highly efficient and cheap form of personal transportation, especially for urban areas. In my city (Montreal) motorcycles park for free and almost anywhere they wish, essentially lawlessly. I don't own a car and use a motorcycle to avoid public transportation yet not impact the environment nearly as much as a full size car. The economics of it are amazing too, I spend about $15-20 on gasoline a month while commuting daily, spend almost no time in traffic and nothing on parking. Maybe $600 a year on insurance and $300 on plates. The initial costs were higher due to getting gear but that still doesn't compare to car ownership.

[Gibbon1]

Friend of mine in the Bay Area commutes on a motorcycle. says depreciation and maintenance negate any savings. He does it because it saves him an hour a day commuting.

[Zenbit_UX]

$120/season for oil change and filter + new tires every 2 years (unsure of the costs here as I've yet to need this on my new bike). Surely this is comparable or less than the average ICE car?

[dharmab]

You forgot valve checks. Those are an expensive service required on bikes but not on cars.

And moto tires are expensive, much more so per mile than car tires.

[dharmab]

Outside of very large cities where filtering is legal, the maintenance costs eat up any money you save over an economy car. Tires are especially brutal- my commute makes me have to replace both tires every winter.

[Zenbit_UX]

My tires will have to be replaced in the spring but maintenance costs other than that are about $120 for oil change and filter once per season. What other costs are you getting?

[dharmab]

Oil for my car: $20, lasts 5000 miles

Oil filter for my car: $8, lasts 15000 miles

Oil and filter change for my least expensive bike: $22, lasts 1500 miles

Oil and filter change for my lowest maintenance bike: $67, lasts 6000 miles

Valve adjustment: $200-300 for a professional to remove the head and cams and adjust the valve shims. Interval varies, usually every 10000-15000 miles on a bike. Not required at all on a car due to hydraulic lifters that are fine for a car engine but can't move fast enough for a high-revving bike engine.

Final drive: Chain and sprocket need replacement every 12000-15000 miles, costs about $150 or so. Shafts need shaft oil every 10000 miles, dunno what the price is since I've never had anything other than a chain. Most cars last 100000+ miles without any transmission service.

Spark plugs last 100000+ miles on a car but usually are changed every 10000-20000 miles on a bike. Modern bikes often use multiple plugs per cylinder. $5 per plug.

The tires are the main killer for me. A set of tires on my car lasts about 6 years, while I have to replace tires every year on my main bike. That adds up very quickly.

Other costs:

Coolant every 4 years, brake fluid every 2 years, but that is similar on the car.

I have to admit that good coverage bike insurance is cheaper than good coverage car insurance as long as you stay away from sportbikes and hoon machines.

[peatmoss]

All that makes sense except the Montreal part... riding in icy conditions sounds like pure terror to me. And I say this as someone who used to commute by bicycle year around in Montana.