[mschuster91]

> For all the bad that the US does, at least they don't invade and annex European countries, and try to undermine European politics.

Another German here. I find Putin and Russia absolutely revolting, but that last part is utter propaganda. The US has meddled in European politics for decades - just take Trump's stupid whining against BMW or Bush/Obama's complaints about NATO budget or us Germans not joining the fun in Iraq.

[rbinv]

Another German here, and I agree. It's beyond naive to assume that there's no serious US interference in European politics (Trump or not).

[syshum]

>>just take Trump's stupid whining against BMW

I can not find anything current but if you are talking about his statements on the MX plant, he does that to every Manufacturer that sell items in the US but does not manufacturer them here (at least in part).

Trump is a nationalist and loves protectionism, he believes that Products sold in the US should be made in the US. Thus BMW building a plant in Mexico to sell cars to the US goes against what he wants which is a US Factory employing US Workers. He has done the same to other Auto companies including both Ford and GM

>> Bush/Obama's complaints about NATO budget

Umm a large number of Presidents have complained about the other nations not paying their fair share into NATO as part of the agreements all nations signed, Germany does not spend enough of thier GDP on NATO, instead the US has to disproportionately fund world defense...

Then we get to be lectured by the EU about why we do not have Universal Healthcare which in part because we need to spend soo much on world defense because the other nations refuse to

[pgeorgi]

> he believes that Products sold in the US should be made in the US.

Let's ensure that software and media sold in Europe are made in Europe. (not that Trump minds: both hit California for the most part and he doesn't care about CA)

> Germany does not spend enough of their GDP on NATO, instead the US has to disproportionately fund world defense

And now that the EU is planning a defense fund (which will help on that particular front, and also improve EU's capabilities so that there's less real-or-perceived reliance on the US) the US complains again because they don't get to sell their crap overseas.

Hypocrites.

[dtwest]

The US has meddled in European politics ever since the World Wars, and if they had not, you'd probably be a Russian.

The US has asked Germany to increase their own defense spending and provide symbolic support for a stupid war. But were there really any consequences when Germany said no? Those are not good examples of the US undermining European politics.

[jplayer01]

I think we have a different definition for undermine. I can't say anything about how they've meddled in European politics. I'd hazard a guess that you really don't either, you just like being anti-American, which is the vastly popular opinion in Germany now, and partly the reason why nobody cares about Russia around here.

But the EU has benefited greatly from US hegemony across the globe, such that I can't in any way see how they might have undermined European politics in any way. Trump is irrelevant to the argument, and I don't see any direct or manipulative meddling in German politics in their attempt to get Germany (or Europe) to join the Iraq war. Hell, we didn't go to Iraq, no matter what the US said or did. And I just don't see anything that is in any way comparable to what Russia has been doing in recent years and continues to do now.

Hell, for most of the post-WW2 period, we were an important pillar in their "war" against Soviet Russia and we've been valued allies (yes, seriously) for much of that time, largely based on common cultural values. As such, they had a clear interest in a strong Europe, as opposed to Russia which benefits from the splintering of the EU and NATO. I know it's hard to remember any of that now with their monkey of a president and all the vile shit that they do, but we were close allies for a long time.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

Not allies, but expendable vasalls. Or how else do you see several installed belts of short range nukes, which would have made your life even more uncomfortable if Germany had been invaded by the Soviets? In fact at least doubly so.