[nopinsight]

Related: Either China or the US has the largest overall PPP-adjusted R&D budget in the world. (The US data here is 2016 while China’s is 2018 so it’s hard to tell exactly.) China’s investment is about the same % of its GDP as France’s.

Others in the top five are the EU, Japan, and Germany, followed closely by South Korea. South Korea invests the most as a percentage of GDP.

All of the “Asian Tigers”, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, appear to have been invested heavily in R&D as a % of GDP (European level or higher) for a long time, and they were the only ones in Asia crossing from third-world to first-world status after Japan, which did the same before that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_researc...

Few places managed to join the developed nation status in the last half century. Chile is arguably the only other example.

[roenxi]

I am instantly suspicious - Research & Development conjurers an impression of lots of research and a hint of development.

However a mining corporation developing a new coal mine site counts that under their R&D budget - it is development. And I suspect the 'development' part of R&D is both substantial and possibly defined differently in different parts of the world with different norms depending on the industry.

I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but this evidence is unreliable. It might be a straight proxy for industrial development.

[coldtea]

>I am instantly suspicious - Research & Development conjurers an impression of lots of research and a hint of development.

Not to me. It could as well be an equal split of research and development, or fairly basic research focused mainly on product development.

>I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but this evidence is unreliable. It might be a straight proxy for industrial development.

Industrial development still needs R&D to compete with industrial development in other parts of the world, it's not like statically applying what the state of the art was in the past.

In several areas we've seen the Chinese go from the same path the Taiwanese, South Korean, and Japanese went in the 60s to the 80s and 90s. From copy cats, to high quality manufacturers and eventual innovators.

One example whose products I've used: DJI for example is the leader in drones and perhaps gimbals, and even started to take down GoPro.

[nopinsight]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-00927-4

“18 JANUARY 2018

China declared world’s largest producer of scientific articles

Report shows increasing international competition, but suggests that United States remains a scientific powerhouse.”

[sgillen]

That is interesting. Do have any idea if that figure includes research done by/for the military? I could not determine that from the Wiki page and it seems like if it does not that could push the US ahead.

[nopinsight]

I don’t know about that either.

One area where China clearly has an advantage is massive investment in time and budget and respect for education and scholarship that pervades its culture, from individual, family, friends, up to the highest level of society.

I once rode in a taxi in Singapore and had a chat. The Chinese-speaking taxi driver expressed sincere admiration after simply learning that I had a master’s degree, to my surprise.

[surfaceintegral]

Just saying, while Singaporeans do out a lot of weight on educational degrees and many locals have 3rd or 4th generational roots to China, Singapore is mainly English-speaking and definitely not a part of China.

[nopinsight]

Yes, I agree. It is just a personal story about the culture which, although has become mixed and evolved in Singapore, maintains this aspect.

About the exam in China itself: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2097512/gaok...

[dis-sys]

> One area where China clearly has an advantage is massive investment in time and budget and respect for education and scholarship that pervades its culture, from individual, family, friends, up to the highest level of society.

China is a very big term, with 30+ provinces and vastly different cultures, attitudes towards education can be completely different in many places. As an example, Henan province has more than 100 million people, such population size is bigger than any EU member state. Sadly it doesn't have any half decent university and it actually fought damn hard back in the late 60s to prevent one of the very best Chinese universities (USTC) from being relocated to its capital city.

[nopinsight]

Would you say the majority of Chinese people value formal education more so than people from most other cultures though?

This may stem from the Imperial Examination which has its origins in 605 CE. (I am not a historian, so please correct me if you have better information/evidence.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination

From my observation, the focus on and respect for education seem true for most of East Asia as well as their diasporas.

[bsder]

> One area where China clearly has an advantage is massive investment in time and budget and respect for education and scholarship that pervades its culture, from individual, family, friends, up to the highest level of society.

My experience is that Chinese have a respect for the record that claims you are educated. Actual education or achievement is irrelevant.

My favorite example of this is a Chinese friend who cashed out of a startup for $22 million but is still a failure because he didn't get a college degree.

[coldtea]

>My favorite example of this is a Chinese friend who cashed out of a startup for $22 million but is still a failure because he didn't get a college degree.

In such a consumerist society as the Chinese, I doubt many average Chinese consider someone with $22 million "a failure".

That could be some academically educated relatives and friends considering him a failure, sure.

But then again that could (and has been) the case in families with heavy academic backgrounds in the US too, where the doctors / university professors / etc for a couple generations parents look down upon the mere "entrepreneur" kid.

[mikekchar]

To be fair, cashing out of a startup for $22 million and being educated are 2 completely different things. I suppose with his new found wealth, he has the means to pursue success in education as well as business ;-)

[Melting_Harps]

> To be fair, cashing out of a startup for $22 million and being educated are 2 completely different things. I suppose with his new found wealth, he has the means to pursue success in education as well as business ;-)

Or one could begin to the see the obvious lack of correlation between having a 'formal education' and that of being financially comfortable. Wasn't the paragon in Tech to be a successful drop out because of the opportunity in this Industry after all? It being a collective big middle finger to the soul crushing nature of the corporate World, and saying to the World their is a different/better way.

In my personal opinion, I think its more one of conformity at best, and signalling of an accepted cultural identity at worst when it comes to Asian culture and degrees. I worked in a lab with almost all of them being primarily of Asian countries (including India) and all of them showed a distinct lack of understanding of what they were doing day to day, or any awareness of or the implications of what their work/labour was doing other than earning money for the company that allowed them to be employed. It was really bizarre and made me feel isolated from work place interactions.

But I came to the conclusion back then that most of it was because they were overworked (we all were, really) and had to send money back home to their respective families in other countries, and that philosophizing about the Health Sciences was just a luxury they couldn't afford as the conclusions were moot--mouths needed to be fed. I felt my position was that of an arrogant Westerner, albeit equally indebted and absorbed about the precarious and fleeting nature of my income in relation to my costs of living. Contradicting the whole 'earn a degree and you'll have it made' narrative that was sold to me since about the 1st grade.

But having spent more time with Asian cultures I think it was more of a 'keep your head down and do as your told' approach to Life, its one that seems very un-Western, as I saw the same thing in tech and even in dating Asian women--where the 'anti-authoritarian,' 'disrupter' or 'non-lemming' personality makes for a good occasional date, perhaps even boyfriend, but makes one unfit for longer term relationships let alone marriage material.

It reminded me of the overly used phrase in Japanese: Shikata-nai, or it cannot be helped to help drive this home most times.

Here is a good example of what I mean (the last paragraph underscoring my point and experiences):

https://blog.gaijinpot.com/beauty-phrase-shikata-ga-nai/

[dis-sys]

> Either China or the US has the largest overall PPP-adjusted R&D budget in the world. (The US data here is 2016 while China’s is 2018 so it’s hard to tell exactly.) China’s investment is about the same % of its GDP as France’s.

On per capita term, China is sitting there not doing any real R&D. It is spending $388 per capita on R&D, that is slightly higher than 20% of what South Korea is spending. CCP owes an honest answer on that matter - why R&D spending has been kept to that low on per capita basis.

It is completely meaningless to talk about total spending. China can cut say 80% of its R&D spending and the total $ figure will still be much higher than some developed EU nations. Such total figure is nothing more than some cheap propaganda material to fool those who don't understand the simplest maths. For such total figure, 1.3 billion Chinese become the silent majority with all their potentials & benefits ignored.

The reality is simple here - China has a very long way (decades & generations) to catch up with the west on R&D spending in its per capita term. Given the population size, it is suppose to have a total spending of US, EU and Japan combined, before that anything else is nothing but propaganda.

[curiousgal]

Except R&D spending per capita doesn't make much sense. It's not like the entire population is researchers...

[haecceity]

Thought it was satire. Pretty good.