[no_opinions]

It would be great if there was world peace, happy families and spouses that stayed together forever, and no foreigners targeting your country.

People often forget that foreign governments are targeting USA and US persons abroad. There isn't another move left but to have surveillance tools and ingest a lot of data. If the advantage is lost, it will be someone else having it.

This also extends to military things. It'd be nice if we all cooperated as countries and built a space elevator. But that's a child's fantasy, in the end there's a power dilemma.

The thing with surveillance / war industry / etc. is there isn't a better alternative. It's not about being bullheaded and mean - it's about the very real threat of losing dominance and having foreign powers boss you around. This has happened to many countries throughout the history of civilization.

Instead of complaining about surveillance in intelligence, which likely doesn't relate to you, why not complain about "normal" civil liberties in a criminal law context - for instance, stricter rules around stored data. Other things include better social benefits, affordable housing, better representation as consumer (e.g. right to repair)?

I bet security will mean a lot more when the system being protected helps the common person more. :)

[buboard]

> Other things include better social benefits, affordable housing, better representation as consumer (e.g. right to repair)?

Moving to china is a good way to ensure all those, and you get free and pervasive surveilance as a bonus. what's not to love

[no_opinions]

They also don't have many social benefits, consumer representation or affordable housing.

If they had to pay US companies back for all the IP they've stolen / used without licensing, they'd be broke.

[hnaccount141]

> instead of complaining about surveillance in intelligence, which likely doesn't relate to you, why not complain about "normal" civil liberties in a criminal law context

Because some of us believe privacy to be a human right and aren't willing to accept violations of other's rights even if we might happen to benefit from it in the short term?

Also, it absolutely does apply to us. The biggest revelation of Snowden's leaks was that the NSA was collecting data on all of us, not just people for whom they had probable cause. Just because that data hasn't been used against you or me yet doesn't mean it never will.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

<<Instead of complaining about surveillance in intelligence, which likely doesn't relate to you, why not complain about "normal" civil liberties in a criminal law context - for instance, stricter rules around stored data. Other things include better social benefits, affordable housing, better representation as consumer (e.g. right to repair)?<<

Why not both? I also question your premise of 'it does not relate to you'.

The data is there, collected and ready for analysis.. if you step out of line that is.

[mmjaa]

I bet you have no clue how many innocent human beings the American government and its allies have massacred in the last 10 years.

Hint: it doesn't benefit you one bit.