[afandian]

So how do people without phones participate in society? I don't use a google account on my phone, so that means no App Store. I'm trying to one day get rid of my google account too. It doesn't cause me many issues in the UK though I can't use things like Uber, and that's no loss to me.

How would I get on in Denmark?

[pjc50]

The UK government "settled status" application procedure for EU nationals resident after Brexit was only available as an Android app. Otherwise you had to apply in person at a specific site.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/03/mps-slam-an...

[rwmj]

It should have been a website. Why on earth was it an app? Presumably so it could spy on the other data on your phone.

[airblade]

So it could read the RFID tag in the passport.

[rvense]

There are a few things you cannot do. In some areas of Copenhagen you can't pay for parking without an app, I'm told (but I don't drive so I don't know for sure).

The biggest mobile-only thing is an app called MobilePay which is used mostly for person-to-person transfers, and a lot of people don't use cash at all anymore. I am starting to see classified ads that specify "MobilePay only", although I guess you could usually convince people to accept a bank transfer instead. A lot of shops also accept it, but there is a law that shops have to accept cash, but some places don't respect it. Very few shops don't accept credit cards, but these generally also like cash...

As for digitization in general, all communication with the municipality and state and things like your bank and insurance company is digital. You're required by law to have a bank account and to have it associated with your personal ID number (all Danish residents are tagged with their birthday + 4 digit code in the Central Person Register). This all goes via a website that works with all browsers, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if down the line some features started being smartphone/app store only.

[rsync]

"There are a few things you cannot do. In some areas of Copenhagen you can't pay for parking without an app, I'm told (but I don't drive so I don't know for sure)."

What are the permissions granted to these apps ?

Do they, as I fear, "require" full access to all contacts, all photos, location data ... ?

[Mashimo]

> So how do people without phones participate in society?

It's not super hard. Until ~3'ish years ago I did not have a smartphone here in DK. Life is just so much easier with it.

I think they got rid of the 10x Bus ticket you would buy at a kiosk, so now you have to buy a single tickets with coins inside the bus. (depends on the city) Which means you need cash. DK society is very much cashless, I mostly see older people still using it.

Is the bus late or did you just miss it? Check the app to see the bus location.

Train Ticket? Now you have to print that out or buy it at the station. It's so easy to search, buy and show the ticket via the app.

Letter from most public authorities / government? There is an app for that. Or website.

Want to give your mate some money? -> MobilePay app. Now you have to get cash somewhere and convince him to take cash. Or go to a computer and transfer it. Which requires more information then just this number and takes longer.

[Aenyn]

Just buying a rejsekort (travel card - you put some money on it at some machine with your credit card and it pays automatically when you check out at the end of your trip. It also has a significant discount vs buying individual tickets) solve all the problems for buses, trains, metro, etc. You can also put your commuter card on it if you want, or you can receive a commuter card by text message which would even work with a dumb phone.

But it certainly helps a lot to have a smartphone, mainly for the government messages and the nem id app.

[afandian]

Sounds like Sweden. About 10 years ago I was very surprised to be able to pay for a bus journey using my (foreign) debit card. Now it's normal in the UK. And I have Swedish friends who have never seen the newly issued currency.

Crazy but it's the future. It's just a shame that it's gatekept by unaccountable duopolies such as Google...

[StavrosK]

Funny you should mention that, my Google account got somehow restricted yesterday due to Google Pay not liking my rooted phone. Now not only can I not pay with the phone, but I have to submit all my private information to a random Google web page, hope someone sees this, hope they agree it's correct, and hope that this was the problem in the first place (since all the app says is "this operation cannot be completed").

In summary, fuck Google. This is why I want cryptocurrency to succeed. I don't want corporations deciding how I spend my own money.

[mr__y]

Imagine future cashless society with mobile-only payments. And a smart-car that needs a phone to open/start. And a smart-home with front-door unlocked with a phone. If you loose/break your phone - no problem, you can replace it with a new one, borrow one or use that old phone you keep in a drawer just in case. Not a huge deal. But if your account gets locked you have a problem. I'm afraid we as a society are giving too much control to a few corporations. It's not that of a problem yet of course

[StavrosK]

> It's not that of a problem yet of course

And that's the problem, that it's going to be insidiously gradual. These lockouts will mostly be seen as acts of God, things that happen to the less fortunate other people and not us. As long as they're kept rare enough, people won't bother solving them, like what happens with countless other things.

[rwmj]

You don't need to wait! Visit China today. In all seriousness they are heading this way - you need a WeChat account to do or pay for just about anything, you will soon need face verification to sign in to any internet service, and fingerprint readers on doors are very much a thing.

[buckminster]

According to the Lloyds website they (and other UK banks) are going to start sending an auth code to your phone as part of the web logon. Though I believe you can ask them to send you a security gadget as an alternative. It is a PITA though.

[rchaud]

I'm in Canada and access Uber via their PWA. m.uber.com I think, I just did the "add to home screen" thing and it launches as a fullscreen web app. No need to have the app installed.