[Aperocky]

You don’t need jquery either, native JS works just fine for most simple interactions like startup apps.

Time to say no to npm and packages like is_odd that somehow are depended on by thousands of packages. A sign of collective hysteria.

[spookthesunset]

> native JS works just fine for most simple interactions like startup apps

Oh god please don't. I worked with a startup whose "lead" (i.e. the person with the most seniority, not the smartest) insisted the whole front-end could be done with plain JS ("angular, jquery, etc... just useless bloat!!!" said the lead developer). What resulted was the biggest rats-nest soup of untraceable mess I've seen in a while. The only person on the team who understood the system was the "lead" developer. Changes took forever. Bug count was through the roof.

When you say "you don't need a framework", what you are really saying is "I'll build my own framework". Because you will be building a framework. And trust me, your framework will not be as good as what is on the market. And when you leave, all developers who didn't leave the company will rip all your shit out and replace it with a "real" framework -- all while cursing your name under their breath.

Your job at a startup is to get product-market fit. Not invent your own framework.

[sjy]

Plenty of people create rats nests using frameworks, too. Would forcing the “most senior but not the smartest” person to use a framework they don’t like really have fixed your problems?

[hnzix]

A framework at least encourages a coherent pattern.

[spookthesunset]

Even non-framework people make frameworks. Just implicitly. At least a marginally good “real” one probably had somebody think hard about it and a great one has a community around it with plenty of devs that can jump right in on your project. All of them will have better documentation and you can get questions answered on stackoverflow. No such luck with the ivory tower anti-framework bozo’s pet framework.

God I’ve worked for too many startups where some “anti-framework” bozo declared frameworks as unneeded bloat.

Avoid these startups at all cost cause whoever hired the anti framework bozo is also a bozo and whoever hired that bozo is also a bozo. Fish rots from the top.

Not a good look for a startup with more important things to do than pushing far-out technology agendas.

[ericb]

Totally agree you don't need jQuery. My criteria for inclusion was "does it make our development even slightly faster, on balance."

The answer was yes in this case. Perhaps that's just the familiarity of it, but at the end of the day, faster is faster.

I'd say my new philosophy is: let our competitors optimize for purity or trendiness or even render time while we optimize for development speed.

[ibeckermayer]

Look here son you don’t need jQuery. Go outside, dig up some Silicon, bake up some wafers, design and manufacture a cpu, strap it to a motherboard, hand-smelt some housing, throw some coal in the generator, write an OS, handcraft a browser, and use plain vanilla HTML/CSS/JS. Fucking kids these days with their _frameworks_

[sequoia]

Avoid adding tons of tiny JS deps that require maintenance= move faster

Avoid adding jQuery & write your own slideUp, slideDown etc. = move slower

[BalinKing]

Equating jQuery and is_odd feels extremely disingenuous to me, and gives the argument a purely-dogmatic feel.