[sbellware]

> The almost-but-not-quite unstated major premise of the whole argument is that you're putting a key piece of smarts into the queue: Tracking whether a message has been processed. One could argue that that is the real antipattern.

Indeed.

Lots of good writing on the tradeoffs, for example: https://sookocheff.com/post/messaging/dissecting-sqs-fifo-qu...

At the risk of beating the point to death, the transition from SOA to Microservices is marked by the transition of smart pipes to dumb pipes, and dumb pipes have no knowledge of whether a message has been processed. In the microservices era, the basic presumption is that the transport has no knowledge of the state of the message processors' progress through a queue.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> the transition from SOA to Microservices is marked by the transition of smart pipes to dumb pipes, and dumb pipes have no knowledge of whether a message has been processed.

That doesn't to seem to be characteristic of Microservices at all. It's more about small bounded context and independent deployment of the service. All of which is completely possible over the "smart pipes" that message queues that I mentioned will give you.

Insisting that this wheel must be re-invented or worked around to make it a microservice seems very odd.

[hmeh]

> That doesn't to seem to be characteristic of Microservices at all.

Many have their own "unique" definition, which is why "microservices" is bordering on no longer meaning anything. Some people say it and mean SOA—the characteristics you mention are pretty much characteristics of SOA when done right, though independent deployment isn't a necessity.

Martin Fowler attempted to codify a definition, and this is inline with the definition that sbellware is referring to. He (and others) refer specifically to smart endpoints and dumb pipes:

https://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html#SmartEn...

[sbellware]

Indeed. And having been around in both the SOA period and the Microservices period, and having witnessed the transition, I'm comfortable with maintaining the assertion that "Microservices" as a term was specifically introduced to demarcate the period characterized by big-vendor smart message transports and the period characterized by dumb transports we settled on as a reflection of all that we'd learned by trying to rely on messaging "magic".

It's a very similar transition to the shift from EJB to Hibernate (or EJB to Rails) or from SOAP to REST.

In the mean time, a lot of folks who don't have that background and perspective picked up on Microservices and made a lot of presumptions based on a lot of experience with web apps and web APIs. It's this that made "Microservices" a largely meaningless, muddied term. This is ironic because "Microservices" was introduced as a means to disambiguate the many competing meanings of "Service-Oriented Architecture" that had come into existence as many and vendors wanted to be seen as being involved with it without actually having been involved with it.

So, there's two meanings of "Microservices": One that comes from a background of service architectures and one that comes from a background of web development. My background is in both of them, but I hew to the meaning of "Microservices" which is closer to "SOA without big vendor smart pipes of the mid-to-late 2000s" than "The same old HTTP APIs we see the world through as web developers".

That's largely a lost battle now, just as SOA was lost to the competing interests of message tech vendors.

The term "Autonomous Services" is a much more precise and unambiguous in its intent, and conveys more specifically what's intended by "SOA done right", a.k.a.: "Microservices". And even more specifically, "Evented Autonomous Services" does an even better job of conveying the intent and the implications or the architecture than what "Microservices" can do now.

Or as Adrian Cockroft originally put it: "Loosely-coupled service oriented architecture with bounded contexts".

Knowing what the implications of all those words are, it's quite impossible to look at what is commonly asserted about the meaning of "Microservices" in 2019 and see much left of the great value of what was originally intended. Much of it still remains unlearned.