Ask HN: Would you mind being monitored at work?

[icos]

I look for a remote software developer position and a potential employer say they require to install special software to track working hours and automatically take periodic screen shots. Logically, they have the right to do it and I'm fine with live pair programming, but emotionally such close monitoring is repulsive to me.

Normally, when I code, I google a lot (for documentation, samples and best practices), apply many iterations to shape the code to the final production ready form and take pauses to think. I'm afraid this process will look awful to a review manager.

Am I hypersensitive? Are my working habits normal for a seasoned software developer? Are you monitored at work?

[karmakaze]

I don't care if anyone at work sees what I'm doing at any given moment as I use my work laptop for work, barely even read HN or reddit. Even with that if it was required that my laptop had monitoring sw as mentioned, I would immediately work elsewhere. I'm a professional and won't work were I'm not treated as such. It's also a sign of bad management and leadership that will get worse rather than better.

[cellularmitosis]

“It’s also a sign”

This. It is never the case that this one terrible idea was the sole outlier from an otherwise brilliant and empathetic leadership team.

[keiferski]

I would never work for a company that requires me to install spyware to take screenshots of my computer screen. It's Orwellian and any organizations that require it should be shamed and boycotted.

On a personal note, there are plenty of companies that don't do this, so I'm sure you can find a position that doesn't require it.

[codesternews]

Most companies (Big companies) do that. You even not aware of it. They have pre installed softwares for this kind of shit. Monitoring your traffic and taking screenshot is common.

[EnderMB]

No, absolutely not. Trust goes both ways, and if a company cannot trust me to use my time appropriately, then I cannot trust them to provide an adequate environment for me to perform my job. This is doubly-important for remote work, as you're relying on the company to adapt to its employees and the environment they work in.

[Copenjin]

> Logically, they have the right to do it

Says who? Please let's not start thinking that this kind of silly absurdities are logical or acceptable. What's next, random monitoring to identify wronthink?

[patatino]

As a developer you are already monitored, every line of code you write or change or delete is tracked. So it is already possible to see how much you get done.

No, you are not hypersensitive. I don't wanna know how much else is wrong with a company like that.

[chrisbennet]

Not disagreeing with you but I might add, pauses are also a part of the process. We (developers) aren't typists.

[wakatime]

Yes, pauses and breaks can increase productivity so this company's intrusive monitoring is probably doing the opposite of what it intends. As long as the break isn't from an external interrupt.

Note: Self-monitoring that's not shared with employer is a different story.

[davidgf]

Just look for another job, don't even waste a single second of your life considering that offer. I worked for a company that would allow us working from home some days a week, and we even had some remote colleagues. At some point, our manager made us install one of those applications, which denoted he didn't trust us anymore. The app worked exactly as you say, and it was frustrating and infuriating at the same time. It would "measure" your productivity based on the mouse and keyboard activity, giving ridiculous results like a 20% or 30% of effective time worked. Surely a monkey banging on the keyboard would have a much better score, but that's not what developers get paid for. Not only so, but I had the perception that the app had a special preference for taking screenshots when I was on Slack or writing an email, which feels like an utter violation of privacy. Obviously, most of us either left the company or refused to use the tracking software. Be conscious of the value you can provide and look for someone that judges your work by your output, not by the number of keystrokes you do a day.

[rapnie]

If you can afford it I would forego this employer and look elsewhere for a place where they measure your performance based on what you deliver.

Your repulsion is showing your moral compass points to 'Not okay' for this type of monitoring. Accepting it would influence the way you work, make you feel uncomfortable, self-conscious being watched.

Imho this type of surveillance should not become the norm, and we should resist submitting ourselves to it, whenever we can.

[creo]

Its a trust issue. It probably means that said employer lacks management skills.

[bjelkeman-again]

I haven’t hired anyone as a developer remotely who I don’t trust to get in with the work, in other words I would not remote monitor nor would I work for someone who did.

I think they may lack management skills, but also lack skills in managing remote workers in general. This could well be a condition put in by a non dev manager.

[deepaksurti]

Such a job (unless your situation is dire) is not recommended. I know of one such company, won't name it here, but such companies I think are one big scam. They will put a camera in front of you and record every moment. Cut salary if you are away for even a few minutes! Google is your friend and as expected such companies will insert a few moles to write good reviews about them as well!!!

There are way too many good remote companies who will treat you good and pay you great. Getting into them is hard as remote jobs are competed for by a larger pool of candidates.

If you are planning to switch into remote, please do a deep dive (unsolicited advice) :-) and then decide. Good luck!

[croo]

Hello OP. I would like to point out that the otherwise diverse and critical community of HN did something unprecedented and never before witnessed - everyone agrees.

[alltakendamned]

That would be an immediate deal breaker for me. There would be no discussion about it. Judge me on my output, but I decide how I work.

[seattle_spring]

Absolutely not. In fact, I would make it my life's mission to name and shame that company into the ground.

[tudelo]

uh... wow

[Raed667]

This can be more of a symptom of lack of trust in remote workers. I'm fine with a mostly-on live camera if you're working with a team that isn't remote and need to bridge that gap.

However, screenshots and software monitoring is a step too far for me personally.

[nik736]

What the actual fuck.

Why are you even considering such a position?

[billconan]

I would mind it. As long as I deliver, they shouldn’t care when and how long I work.

[psv1]

Yes, I would mind. A lot. You aren't hypersensitive. Run and don't even think about it twice.