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by monocasa 2388 days ago
> AVX-512 debuted on Xeon because datacenter operators asked for it.

It deputed on workstation accelerator cards.

> It does not “downclock a whole chip”, it gates the core where it is active and there’s not even that penalty on the current generation parts.

It very much could thermally throttle more than the one core.

> “10nm” is marketing fluff which has little or nothing to do with actual semiconductor construction.

"10nm", even as a proper noun, is a very important component of Intel's woes right now. They aren't getting the yields they were expecting, a major competitor surpassed the for the first time ever (TSMC) and that's how AMD is killing them right now.

> “Chiplet” is also marketing-speak for “wow this memory topology is hard to program around “. Not sure they should feel too bad about missing that boat.

No, it's marketing-speak for "near EUV process nodes have terrible yields compared to previous nodes, and need smaller dies combined on a multi chip module to get anything worthwhile for an acceptable cost". Current EPYC chips are a single NUMA node again, but still chiplets. They are absolutely kicking themselves for not bucking the trend and going chiplet, because then they would have been competitive with TSMC for yield/area. Single chips is putting all your eggs in one basket, but splitting the dies means you throw away way less chips. (Another way out is FPGAs and GPUs that practically can bin off way more of the chip).

> And the bets they made didn’t pan out: FPGAs aren’t popular because the people sophisticated enough to use them are also smart enough to tape out ASICs.

FPGAs are very interesting in a post Moore's law world. Their ability to dynamically reconfigure makes them interesting in cases where ASICs don't make sense. High level logic can be treated like code from a continuous delivery perspective (like Alibaba does with their memcache like FPGAs sitting on RDMA fabric). Data can be encoded in combinatorial logic and treated like any other infrastructure deployments (like Azure does with their routing CAMesque logic in their SDN FPGAs). ASICs don't give you anywhere near that flexibility, even in a world where they're a commodity. Don't confuse their tooling immaturity for a lack of usefulness.

> IoT is not a thing.

It's very much a thing; once again just an extremely immature ecosystem. Once high end CPUs are commidities that can been shopped around from each of the fabs, IoT external customer designs will almost certainly be a very important revenue stream for Intel. A modern fab is nothing to sneeze at, basically only countries with $20B to spend will have one, so we'll be seeing one or two per continent. It won't make sense for anyone else in the US to compete. As for how that affects IoT, tiny nodes will be amazing for little smart dust chips once the capital investment of these end nodes has been paid off.

3 comments

IoT is a thing .. that Intel failed to get into. They don't have anything that scales down that well. That market is dominated by ARM, implemented by all sorts of lower tier vendors like MediaTek.

FPGAs really need a tooling unlock to take off so they can be useful to people who haven't been on the ASIC design course.

> It won't make sense for anyone else in the US to compete

TSMC?

TSMC isn't a US company.
Correct, but they do a lot of fab work for other companies. It's not absolutely necessary to have your own fab to be competitive unless your volumes are huge... at which point you can afford it.

Apple have $245bn on hand, so they could have a dozen $20bn fabs if they felt the need. Bezos has $180bn and no idea what to do with it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/29/apple-now-has-tk-cash-on-han...

They could, but the answer to "what should I spend $20b on" for both pretty clearly isn't "a fab where at the end of the day you might get a fraction of a percent better costs on bare dies from the vertical integration versus just buying from TSMC or whoever"

Fabs are both a commodity, and take a high capital investment. Unless you have a geopolitical reason to create one and you get .gov kickbacks to make it happen, then there's way better uses of your money.

Thank God for this comment I couldn't upvote this enough, got into much more detail that I could have bothered to reply.

2nd Comment into the page and literally everything said in that were wrong.

Basically all that stuff you said about IoT has been said verbatim for decades and yet here we are. Remember the "SmartMote"? Neither does anyone else. By the way that was _also_ an Intel-funded project.