[orange8]

> What's really needed is a standard GUI markup language (SGML)

What's wrong with HTML? Isn't it already everywhere, including in all browsers?

> HTML browser makers usually don't care if they break a particular JavaScript library by adding or tweaking features.

HTML and JS are two different languages. One is a markup language, the other a scripting language. If changes to the markup language break a library in the scripting one, its clearly the library that needs fixing. Expecting browser makers to somehow keep their HTML engines backward compatible with JS libraries isn't really realistic or practical.

[tabtab]

Re: "What's wrong with HTML?"

It doesn't handle "state" well, and lacks common GUI idioms like menu bars, tool-bars, editable data grids, combo-boxes, model dialog boxes/windows, MDI, and others. Perhaps HTML can be modified to do those well, but it probably wouldn't be "HTML" anymore.

Re: "If changes to the markup language break a library in the scripting one, its clearly the library that needs fixing."

I'm comparing the emulation of desktop GUI's via HTML + DOM + CSS + JavaScript + JavaScript libraries to something that natively handles GUI's. Those 5 parts together have proven fragile. The chain is as strong as the weakest link.

Re: "Expecting browser makers to somehow keep their HTML engines backward compatible with JS libraries isn't really realistic or practical."

That's why we need a dedicated GUI markup language and browser (or pluggin). You would be very careful about breaking GUI's if GUI's are your tool's only job. HTML (current) browser makers have a lot of other concerns. Breaking a GUI emulator library is just collateral damage to them that makes them yawn.

Those who tried to do something somewhat similar failed because they put too much on their plate: Flash and Java Applets. They tried to be entire virtual OS's, making them a hacker haven. Lesson: don't be an application programming language, don't be a compiler, don't be an OS, don't be a code editor, don't be a toaster, just be a GUI browser and only a GUI browser.

[orange8]

> It doesn't handle "state" well

It is a markup language, just like the SGML you talked about. In-fact, it started out as a subset of SGML. If it could handle state, it would not be a markup language. The same applies for any desktop GUI that uses a custom markup language to declare a UI.

> via HTML + DOM + CSS + JavaScript + JavaScript libraries to something that natively handles GUI's. Those 5 parts together have proven fragile

They have proven so fragile, that the whole web, billions of pages handling all sorts of things from banking to social media run on top of them. Not to mention PWA mobile apps and cross-platform desktop apps like VS Code. And it is actually 4 parts, all platforms have libraries.

> That's why we need a dedicated GUI markup language and browser (or pluggin).

We already have one, maybe you just don't like it, don't understand it or its not cool/edgy enough for your tastes. It's called HTML.

[PretzelFisch]

I would just say HTML is a document markup, not an application ui. And you need css to make a none-document look nice.