[hexxiiiz]

Not sure what Grahams views are on economics, but I have certainly read/heard business people trumpet heretical ideas with praise before, having specifically in mind those heresies that conform to their particular world view. Graham uses two scientists as examples that have long been situated uncontroversially in the scientific world as canonical. Scientists are often used as examples of this kind of "revolutionary thinking" lauded by people in this world. I am curious how Graham would respond to the heresy of Marx's critique of capital to challenge the idea that capitalism is the best and historically final form of economics. Marx is just one example here of a thinker that is heretical without being "innovative" in the archetypical sense of Einstein or an inventor. I am generally curious if when someone promotes heresy, they already have in mind the kind of heresies that already fit into their dogmas. Graham may be more broad minded than this, but this kind of view does get thrown around enough to look like a trope.

[zzzcpan]

Novelty he talks about is one thing, but economics is a policy driven political system, not rooted in science and hence forced on people and supported with propaganda. The difference is between fighting opinions of powerless people and fighting powerful governments that have full force of propaganda behind them and all kinds of censorship, silencing techniques that affect spread of information everywhere.

[buboard]

how was Marx not innovative? Also, today it feels that Marx is the orthodoxy and the heretics are those who reject him

[blotter_paper]

If Marx feels like orthodoxy you either haven't read a significant amount of Marx or you haven't been paying attention to who controls the capital in society. I say this as somebody who does not identify as a Marxist, but used to.

[buboard]

are we talking about now or the past? Marx is mainstream economic thought today, not some heresy. Back then, marx was certainly 'heretic', but i dont think there was talk of the end of history.

[blotter_paper]

The "end of history" bit is Hegel, really. I could see Marx being considered Orthodox in some History and English departments, but his viewpoint is definitely a minority among Economists, and society is not broadly structured in a way that reflects his thinking. The social nets we see today come nowhere near a from-each/to-each narrative. The workers do not own the means of production. Wealth is more concentrated than ever.

[buboard]

e.g. the most prominent US democratic candidates openly support ideas that are more marxist than anything else. They represent a lot of people, it's not some small heresy

[blotter_paper]

That party is currently in the minority, but more importantly their policies do not reflect Marxism. Their last Presidential nominee and last President both supported capitalism. You can point to some figures that pay lip-service to socialism, like Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez, but even then the details of their policies are a mixed-market capitalism with a bigger socialist band-aide than we currently have. Marx was suggesting that people would identify as a groupman and act as if everybody mutually possessed everything. Obama (who was widely accused of being a communist) forced people to purchase healthcare from private corporations or face a government-imposed fine. These things are wildly different. While I wouldn't argue that the Soviet Union was ever really embodying Marxism either, the idea was certainly orthodox. If the Democrats widely identified as Marxists despite not actually implementing Marxist policies, I'd give you that Marxism was orthodox in their party (and simply call them hyprocrits in addition). This is not the case. They both widely denounce Marxism and don't implement Marxist policies. We can't call every welfare program Marxism unless we're willing to retroactively label Emperor Trajan a Marxist; Marxism is more specific than welfare.

[huffmsa]

Marx didn't challenge capitalism though,he said it wasn't the endgame, just the late-midgame.

WALL-E is our future, and WALL-E is perfect Marxist communism.