[om3n]

I live in a northern Midwest suburb, in a region that receives a lot of snow in the winter. I have driven older trucks my whole life, in part because of of the 4x4 capability for winter driving. I also enjoy being the guy who keeps a tow strap in the toolbox and hauls people out of ditches. Hard to do that without a heavy 4x4 vehicle.

When you have the bed, you realize there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think. Other than just hauling stuff, the tailgate acts as a bench to sit on- I used to have lunch with my wife every day in the summer like this. At an outdoor event (like fireworks, outdoor concert in a park, etc.) I've lined the bed with blankets and lounged at comfortable height with 3 friends and great view of whatever is going on.

For me, the real key is to own an older truck that you don't mind dinging or using to its potential. I buy used, with cash, and I don't spend more than $15K or so. I don't understand spending $65-75K on a brand new mall-crawling status symbol that will only start being used like a truck in 15 years by a guy like me.

Although admittedly, I really like the look and presumed potential of the new Tesla truck. It's the first vehicle that I'd actually consider buying new. I wonder how well the stainless steel will hold up the salty roads- the bane of vehicles around here.

[fyfy18]

How much snow do you get there?

I live in Northern Europe and drive a Prius and have no issues in the winter. Last year we went to visit my wife's grandma, who lives in a 'village' (nearest neighbour 1km away) ~5km down a uneven dirt track which is bad enough in the summer. When we went, there was 30cm of snow on the road, but I had absolutely no issues. I was surprised by how well it handled it.

Sure if I had ended up in a ditch I would have had troubles, but you'd also have issues with a truck. (There aren't many big trees you can use to tow yourself out in this area)

I get that maybe you like trucks, but I don't think there is as much need as you make out (in the winter department - your other points are fair arguments). Modern cars (esp. 4x4) can handle pretty much any road surface, the only case you would need something bigger is for off-road where you need higher clearance.

[barretts]

It's not just amount of snow but terrain. A fair bit of snow on a flat surface might be fine, but even a little bit on a slope can quickly become problematic if you don't have 4x4.

[seminatl]

I wonder how this sounds to people who live in, say, Switzerland, where it is very mountainous, snows frequently, and literally nobody drives a truck, and even the cars are not AWD.

I mean, I _know_ how it sounds because I am one of those people. But I wonder how Americans think this sounds.

[CivBase]

European countries are much more compact, which makes public transportation much easier to justify. By contrast, the US is extremely spread out and public transportation yields much less ROI even in many urban areas.

Vehicle ownership in the US is practically a requirement because you have to drive to get anywhere. Therefor, having a versitile vehicle like a truck is more apealing.

Trucks also tend to be more durable than cars so they're more common in the used market, especially in the midwest.

...but for many, a truck is just an aesthetic/lifestyle symbol. The "country" lifestyle is generally associated with independence and work ethic - traits which are highly valued in the US. Trucks are a classic symbol of that lifestyle. That's why country songs stereotypically mention trucks.

[GordonS]

The OP wasn't arguing for public transport, so I don't get where your comments on that came from from. I totally get what you mean about "symbols" though.

> Trucks also tend to be more durable than cars

Surely the engine, drivetrain, clutch etc are the same parts you'd find in cars? Curious about what you mean here?

[jdsully]

I drive a normal FWD car during winter weather almost nobody will go out in. I drove it cross-country through the worst snowstorm the midwest experienced in the last 10 years where I couldn't see more than 10ft in front of me.

All that said, I would have been much safer in a truck.

[throw0101a]

> All that said, I would have been much safer in a truck.

A truck specifically, or would any ol' four-wheel driven (4x4, AWD) vehicle do?

[jdsully]

It really depends on the depth of the snow.

[GordonS]

I'm with you - as long as you don't have a RWD car, winter tyres on a FWD car make a huge difference, and they deal with ice and snow just fine.

[brudgers]

Switzerland is about 41000 km^2 in area. The US has about 660,000 km^2 of fresh surface water.

The scales of the US and Switzerland are incomensorable.

[seminatl]

Ohio has the same population density as Spain. American exceptionalism is just American ignorance of geography.

[brudgers]

Alabama is the size of England. Using individual US states as points of reference for entire European countries is one form of the incomensorability. Columbus, Ohio is as far from San Diego, California as Barcelona is from Moscow. Except there's pretty much nothing but empty plain, mountains, and desert in between. Ohio has 10,000 km^2 of fresh water...about a quarter of Switizerland.

Recognizing the difference of scale is not a claim to exceptionalism. The US's scale makes it more like Russia than any western European country.

[abawany]

You also forget that gas is super cheap in the US so buying a truck with its sub 20mpg fuel consumption is a no-brainer.

[ssharp]

The long-term utility of this Tesla truck will be interesting to see. Even though new trucks are insanely priced right now, they do have very good longer-term value compared to cars.

I like having a truck but would never drop $75k for one. I currently own a 1999 Chevy 2500. It has 150,000 miles on it, which is essentially nothing for a truck that old. A lot of people who buy trucks expect them to last 15+ years and most of them do. Hell, as long as the frame is in good shape, you won't have any trouble finding someone who would buy the truck and drop a new engine in it, considering a crate 350 will set you back less than $3,000.

[bo1024]

That’s exactly what gets me about Tesla. This is a truck you will probably never be able to repair yourself or at local shops (for software reasons alone) and is totally dependent on Tesla’s attention span and staying in business to hold its value.

Farmers are fed up with John Deere and their software shenanigans. I hope people like you who are actually thinking about value, don’t fall for this...

[Fjolsvith]

I own two Chevy 2500's, a '99 and a '00. They both have the 6 liter engine, very hot roddy. Bought them both for less than $3k used. One is 4WD and the other is 2WD. I used them to haul sheds that I manufacture and they are the first pickup that hasn't disintegrated under this abuse. My shed trailer and heaviest building weigh 7500 lbs together, and there is significant wind resistance towing buildings.

While I've never considered purchasing a new pickup, I'd sure like to have one of the cybertrucks to haul with.

[organsnyder]

My Honda Civic does just fine in the winter in Michigan. A good set of snow tires is all I need.

[simonsarris]

Yeah, FWD with snow tires is like 1000x better than AWD with "all season" tires.

AWD has a great plus for thrust, but in terms of stopping, which is where most "oh shit" stuff happens, the snow tires are what's meaningful.

(I live in New Hampshire)

[ynniv]

It turns out that all cars have four wheel braking... Actually, unloaded pickup trucks don’t use their back brakes very effectively.

[aidenn0]

Everyone I knew in the midwest with a pickup weighted the back in the winter.

[close04]

> there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think

This looks like a solution in search of a problem. People are buying stuff they don't need then finding a good justification for it (from their perspective). But almost anything can be justified this way. Even driving an 18-wheeler will have advantages you never thought about but this doesn't negate the downsides. Mainly that you carry around 4000-5000lbs (over 2000Kg) of metal mainly just to move 1 or 2 people and nothing more. This is a lot of wasted fuel and a lot of space taken in the street.

Coal also has advantages but few people would dare defend it with this argument.

[jiofih]

No wasted “fuel” for an electric car, especially if it comes from 100% solar power...

[pauletienney]

Moving a total of 2600kg with only 150kg of "useful load" (2 people) is a waste of energy.

[jiofih]

Sun shining on your roof is also a waste of energy.

[learc83]

The top end model S weighs about 2300kg, so it's not really much of a difference.

[close04]

That doesn't make it better. Moving around by yourself (like most drivers out there) in a 2300Km vehicle is not efficient. It's just better by comparison because at least it's an EV. But you still use a lot of (not so clean in the majority of cases) electricity to move a lot of weight just so one person gets from point A to point B.

People want one car to be the jack of all trades. Big enough for 7 people and carry a house's worth of furniture in one go while towing a boat, and travel 800Km on a charge. So it ends up being truck sized, 2500+Kg, to carry 1 person on their 5Km commute to work 99% of the time.

[learc83]

It's all relative. You could build something that weighed 100kg, so anything heavier is a waste of energy if we only look at ability to go from point A to point B.

But it would be a death trap to drive around other 2000kg vehicles, and it wouldn't be comfortable.

>5Km commute

Almost no one in the US has a commute that short.

[Fjolsvith]

See how fast you can go 250 miles on foot power.

[drcode]

Like me, you probably live in the vast majority of the Midwest that is as flat as a pancake. I would argue in that scenario 4x4 is not very important: if there's no incline, two wheel drive will work in almost any weather situation.

(sure, on strictly theoretical grounds, having 4 wheel drive, or 10 wheel drive or 1000 wheel drive, if there are no downsides, would always be preferable)

[Retric]

I once pulled a rather Jeep out of a ditch in my old Volvo 240 station wagon. At low speeds basically every 100+ HP vehicle is traction limited. It also did surprisingly well in the snow with a little practice and good tires.

[WhompingWindows]

How do you justify having much dirtier and far more carbon emissions than people who have appropriately sized vehicles? Granted, you could use it a few times for the bed, but why not just rent a truck and save the environment the other 95% of trips?