[JoeSamoa]

Yep. This is the point I've been trying to make to many Americans.

This issue goes beyond our consumption. The entire worlds growth has to be regulated at this point to ensure stability.

That means Western countries need to accept a lower standard of living or find ways to become vastly more efficient so that developing nations can catch up and we can find an equilibrium in regards to standard of living globally.

[growlist]

> Western countries

This West/rest dichotomy seems a bit outdated. Is China the West? oil-rich Middle East? Both of those have high emissions per capita - in the case of the Middle East, some of the highest in the world.

[JoeSamoa]

China is especially not the west. They would typically be the East.

Mostly I meant developed vs undeveloped. Those are Eastern countries who are still developing. I think the dichotomy fits just fine still.

[growlist]

Well then, here's another reason it's false: there is huge variation within the West, with the US for example having more than twice as much co2 emissions per capita as the UK.

[SlowRobotAhead]

> The entire worlds growth has to be regulated at this point to ensure stability.

Why does this sound familiar?

Well, look, I for one at least appreciate the honesty from many climate concerned types that the goal is really authoritarian socialism. It’s much better to be honest about that than the years previous where it was all “we can just solve it with a tax” which implied but didn’t come right out and say what it really is to some people.

[JoeSamoa]

Regulation doesn't mean authoritarianism.

Is the WTO authoritarianism? Is a speed limit authoritarianism?

NO. Those are just regulations, because as systems get more complex you need more rules to manage the scale.

[SlowRobotAhead]

Uh huh, and how are the undesirable actions, the regulations, and taxes enforced? The gun, same as was, same as it will be.

[JoeSamoa]

The same way that undesireable actions are handled in the WTO.

Look all I'm talking about doing is creating a world climate organization rater than a world trade organization and you're trying to tell me I'm suggesting authoritarianism. It's ludicrous.

[hackeraccount]

Solutions are fueled by growth as much as problems are. There's a whole school of thought that by assertion argues that growth is bad. It's not an argument that withstands scrutiny.

[hnaccy]

Instead of lowering their standard living I imagine many would prefer the developing nations don't catch up.