[altonzheng]

Another perspective (I learned from a therapist), is that we might already possess the innate ability to be great conversationalist, it's just performance anxiety that gets in the way. So for me, as someone who consumed loads of self-help material without much improvement, it wasn't about learning more skills or anything, it was about giving myself permission to be dumb, boring, lame, and still accepting myself at the end of the day. And once I'm able to do that, there's no more anxiety, and then everything becomes much easier. I feel like this is a path to a more natural sort of confidence, although you might get there by practicing social skills directly too. Very painful though, and I'm still working on this.

Not saying this applies to everyone, but I think it's helpful for people who approach their social anxiety with a type-A mentality.

[JimboOmega]

It's important that this applies to virtually any endeavor, from coding to being social or dating.

You are going to be dumb, lame, awkward, etc at pretty much anything you haven't done before; the only path to not being that way is to just tough it through that awkward phase.

[leggomylibro]

One problem is that you aren't allowed to make mistakes in social situations anymore without facing extreme consequences, and you're right that it isn't the sort of thing you can learn by reading about it. There's really no chance for young'uns to learn in this day and age.

It's tough, and the worst part is that there's no way out or hope for things to improve. And you can't complain or seek help, or you get treated like someone who must be broken to feel that way. It's an impersonal and judgemental world that we live in today, no matter who you are or what your views are like.

No wonder so many people seem to feel that our current culture and society are so vehemently toxic that they aren't worth even trying to participate in.

[WhompingWindows]

What do you mean by "extreme consequences" for mistakes in social situations?

[leggomylibro]

For awhile now, everyone has been one viral moment away from mob justice. You might lose your career, or you might get harassed day and night, or worse just for slighting the wrong person.

But you also can't opt out of online socializing if you want to meet and keep in touch with people.

[StuffedParrot]

This is ridiculous. R Kelly performed for years as a known pedophile with an adoring fan base. Cancel culture is mostly a myth. You’d have to do something pretty damn bad, way worse than “slighting”, for your behavior to go viral enough you’re “harassed day and night”.

Social rejection is how you learn to be social, and it ain’t gonna ruin your life. It’s just painful.

[magashna]

Remember the NASA scientist who got so much shit for wearing a shirt?

[cagmz]

OP might be referring to "cancel culture": https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/style/cancel-culture.html

[vezycash]

>One problem is that you aren't allowed to make mistakes in social situations anymore without facing extreme consequences

This is what happens when children aren't allowed time to play with fellow kids. They'll won't learn much needed social skills when the social/emotional cost is low.

[snikeris]

> One problem is that you aren't allowed to make mistakes in social situations anymore without facing extreme consequences

Wasn't this more the case for our ancestors? You make a mistake, and you're banished from the tribe or you don't reproduce. In modern times, the stakes aren't as high, but our emotions haven't yet recalibrated.

[danlugo92]

Tip from first hand experience (for dating):

Think you're the only one being dumb/lame/awkward? Regardless of actually you being one of those things, chances are the other person is actually thinking the same.

[fleekonpoint]

Thank you for this. I will try to look at things this way.