Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by vpcs111fm 2410 days ago
I usually don't comment on these, but I do look things differently. Yes -- there are problems, but money coming into a country can be a great addition to the national and local economy.

Yes, it drives the cost of real estate price and etc, but if the demand for real estate goes up, the logical answer should be building more highrises.

If you look at Vancouver (your example), there are ample of areas that need to be wiped out and replaced with highrises.

By building more, we create tremendous jobs, not just the construction workers, but also the bankers, developers, financiers, brokers, furniture sellers, movers, electricians, car salespeople etc. etc.

At the end of the day, whether you live in the States, Canada, or China, the housing market is the most common way of moving economic growth.

People say being the money haven is a bad idea. Why? I don't really understand. You look at Switzerland, Delaware, Ireland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Netherlands, etc etc, it is not a bad thing to structure your system to incentivize so that your domestic businesses want to stay in and foreign business wants to come. Every headquarters that they build, they hire hundreds of accountants, middle-level managers etc. etc. In my opinion, Canada needs more of those tax haven seeking companies, not less. Why would you ever reject free money?

I understand this is a competition to the bottom. But I have to let you know that there will always be corporations and 1% people who will evade the taxes, and there are always too many countries to offer those services.

If Canada hits a foreign buyer's tax, the Chinese and Russians will go to NZ. If Kiwis run a foreign buyer's tax, they go to Australia. If Aussies do it, they go to Portugal. The list goes forever. Again, the right answer to surge in demand is more supply, not restricting the demand, as what many Canadians think.

It's always easy to blame for richer people. Blame on Chinese and Persians in Vancouver, but you have to understand, whether you like it or not, it is the Chinese and Persian people who pushed Vancouver's overall wealth level to the next. Many of their sole job is flipping hosuses, and they don't pay labor taxes. But, they pay more taxes in the end, every time they flip the house. They hire people, move the economic needle every time they flip. Without them, Vancouver would be another sleepy town. There's no other industry here.

And I used to work in Zurich and New York City for over a decade. IMO, Vancouver's rent, housing price, and the overall price level is cheaper than most global cities. You need to compare the prices with where people want to live -- like New York, LA, Paris, London etc, not Calgary or Louisville, Kentucky.

Despite being ranked as among the best places in Vancouver is relatively cheap. Its overall price level can be compared to Barcelona, Moscow, Seoul, or Tokyo, where prevailing wages are a lot lower than Vancouver.

In short, (1) Vancouver's prices are reasonable, (2) we need more of those evasive money, (3) answer to suge in housing demand is to building more and increasing supply, and (4) letting rich people park the money in your neighbour is a good thing! Let them gentrify -- or you can always move to Detroit or Baltimore.

4 comments

On this YCombinator discussion forum of all places we should understand why an influx of foreign capital is terrible for a city.

In short the implications of spiking land values cascade down to entrepreneurs and it becomes significantly more difficult to start a business.

For example in Vancouver over the last decade we've seen this trend in action in the bar/restaurant space, as live music venues have closed, independent spots vanished, and consolidation occurred. The only survivors are the established well capitalized 'upscale casual' players like the Donnelly group, Cactus Club etc.

At this point the notion that a working class person would startup their own small business in Vancouver is laughable. Similarly it's crazy talk that a young person right out of university could go indie and create their own app or game when rents and the cost of living are as high as they are in Vancouver.

It doesn't have to be this way, but the housing crisis has been manufactured by established wealth rent seeking and the financialization of housing.

Reasonable compared to Zurich and NYC maybe but what makes those prices reasonable other then being within the average of the global cities? Just because it's the way we've been doing things doesn't mean it's the right way.

What incentives do builders have to build? Less supply, more money for those that own already, including those on community planning boards, permitting office, etc. And who would buy? Those that would have moved on since they couldn't afford rent. Those that are left are too poor to afford it. Companies look for the cheapest way possible to establish themselves, not where the money is.

Your morals are telling when you say we should learn to accept tax evasion.

Guys, what you guys are saying is against the market mechanism. Whether you like it or not, people will continue to evade taxes and find a safe haven in countries like the States and Canada, cities like New York and Vancouver.

If there is going to be a large surge in demand, the only counter solution is to increase supply. In my opinion, every single building that is lower than 5 stories below 96 ST in NY and any lowrise between Georgia and Commercial Drive in Vancouver needs to be wiped out and replaced with Hong Kong-style highrises. Housing prices and rent prices will tame down eventually!

If you dump 200k new highrises in downtown Vancouver, how the hell prices are not going to come down? Again, it's supply and demand.

At the end of the day, there is no such thing as market that goes beyond supply and demand. And developers always have incentive to build more as long as city intervenes less and liberalize them in terms of what they want to build.

All I am saying here is to let the market figure out. Look at Uber -- were cabs any better before UBER? Travis Kalanick "gentrified" the taxi market and it turned out to be a beautiful thing!

"People say being the money haven is a bad idea. Why? I don't really understand"

This is wrong in every way.

Because they are avoiding taxes elsewhere!

It's point blank theft of social property that directly results in mass fraud and inequality.

My gosh man.

If Canadian citizens were avoiding taxes en-masse by hiding it in Jamaica, would Canadians have something to say bout it?

I guess so.

The excess money is not good because it's not likely to be invested wisely: building another dozen high rises does not create material value for Canada - it's a misallocation of resources.

Finally - your quote about 'Vancouver being reasonable' is utterly wrong given that it's one of the most expensive places in the world relative to local incomes. (#2 'least affordable city in the world') [1]

'All of that money' has only served to make Vancouver utterly uninhabitable by the local population, which is a serious degradation of the quality of life.

The fact that you would support stealing the money meant for taxation in some other nation is very problematic.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/eve4j7/vancouver-is-the-s...