[ben509]

There's a solution to the congestion problem that works even without AVs: private ownership of roads and automated pricing.

Right now, you don't really pay to use roads, you only pay a gas tax to drive on any road. If specific roads were all tolled, and your navigation app (or AV) can tell you the cheapest route and time to drive, people can make better decisions.

And people living nearby should be able to collect nuisance fees from road operators by measuring traffic volume. The operators can build baffling to reduce the volume, or simply increase the cost of using that road to offset the fees paid. (And, of course, the operator has to pay to maintain the road, and it's a lot easier to sue a private entity if potholes damage your vehicle.)

And if data on the cost of commuting is readily available, employers can be required to pay for it as part of a standard labor contract, and they can offer employees incentives to move, adjust schedules to minimize costs, work remotely, etc.

[mmanfrin]

Privatizing roads is absolutely not a solution. People do not choose to drive congested roads, they already have traffic information available to them in the form of google maps. All your solution would do is make it prohibitively infeasible foe many to drive, cutting them off from jobs. A few at the top would see less traffic, but roads only for the 1% aren't really something we should be aiming for.

[ben509]

> People do not choose to drive congested roads

Um, how do the roads get congested, then?

[zozbot234]

Congestion pricing would work quite well (and is finally gaining traction in some city centers), private ownership not so much. Most roads are essentially a natural monopoly, plus there are holdout problems where one private operator charging too much for road traffic screws other road owners, not just users. There's no easy alternative to public ownership.

[unethical_ban]

To be clear, the pricing and compensation models you describe here do not require private ownership. Government could (and should, IMO) be the operator of transit routes.

[neaanopri]

Gas taxes are already an effective road use tax, with infrastructure for collection already in place

[desas]

At what point do electric vehicles make that untrue?

[jedberg]

Depends on the state. California is now charging a much higher renewal rate for EVs specifically to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue.

[glangdale]

Switching to flat fees up front to substitute for 'pay-as-you-go' will encourage more driving, not less. Once you've got a multi-thousand investment per year in having a car you may as well drive it. Gas taxes are flawed but at least relate somewhat to use.

[jedberg]

It’s not a flat fee it’s based on miles driven in the year.

[uryga]

> private ownership of roads and automated pricing

i'd love to have a full tank of gas but not be able to drive somewhere because my card's maxed out! fun end-of-month times

> Right now, you don't really pay to use roads, you only pay a gas tax to drive on any road

[EDIT: removed - misunderstood the quote]

> If specific roads were all tolled, and your navigation app (or AV) can tell you the cheapest route

how is that a good thing? it sounds like a black mirror episode.

[jellicle]

I bought the road in front of your office building and now I'm charging $10,000/trip for you to use it. Sorry. I'd be happy to buy the building from you, at a slight discount.

[balt_s]

I would like to live in a world where people are good-faith coordinated enough to make this possible, but I think we don't live in anything like that world.