[doopfoopdoop]

Stupid anecdotal evidence here, but my experience with wrist/hand pain from computer use is that it's largely addressed by being strong.

During my senior year of college, I had a lot hand pain and I also didn't go to the gym that year. Now, I type more than I ever have, but I'm also deadlifting over 500 lbs x 5 and I don't get any pain at all.

(Dead)lifting is a remarkably good panacea. Back pain, mental blocks, anxiety. Fixes a lot of shit. If you're not lifting heavy, you should be. [0] is a good place to get started.

The article mentions those grip strengtheners in (general) support of this--but the deadlift already does this (i.e., train grip) and a lot more.

[0] https://aasgaardco.com/store/books-posters-dvd/books/startin...

[csallen]

I agree. Here's my story in case anyone finds it helpful:

I started lifting in college, and quickly transformed from being super skinny to being well-built and much stronger than the average person. But not crazy strong. I can usually bench press around 200lbs, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Regardless, 10 years after I started working out I began to develop hand/wrist pain. It went from nothing to mild to severe in the span of 8 months.

So being strong didn't prevent this from happening. But perhaps it delayed it? I probably average 8-10 hours/day on my computer and have since childhood. I also played StarCraft competitively for a number of years, a game that requires far more quick and repetitive clicking and typing movements than most other computer activities. Many StarCraft pros have had multiple surgeries. It's possible I was lucky to make it to age 29 before I had issues.

I tried everything. Most things didn't work, including taking an extended break from my computer.

What did work was going back to the gym. Lifting heavy weights 2-4x a week. Whenever I'm doing that regularly, the pain goes away. If I slack for a period of months, it begins to come back slowly.

[bitexploder]

As I have aged I have moved away from Deadlift. I generally agree though. I train BJJ (grappling) and lift weights. There is a reason a lot of strongmen avoid deadlift. It is a very injury-prone exercise and it requires a tremendous amount of training to do safely IMO. Squats are much safer. You can modify deadlifts in a number of ways to be much safer. I have never had hand issues and I have terrible computer posture. Genetics maybe... but I think RSI work by doing tons of micro damage. Lifting gets your body to repair damage it would not otherwise recognize as damage.

[least]

Strongmen don't avoid deadlift. Robert Oberst was on Joe Rogan Experience and suggested that people that aren't doing deadlift for the sake of the deadlift should look at other exercises because they are safer. Strongmen can't avoid it because in almost every strongman competition there is some sort of deadlift event. It has carry over into other events like the farmer's carry as well.

[glennpratt]

Maybe, but the most capable developer I've ever worked with was also a capable rock climber and white water kayaker. He was still forced off the keys for a year or so around the age of 40.

[JeremyNT]

Age catches up with us all, eventually. A lot of the "be strong" advice is great, for what it's worth, but your body starts to fail as you age.

I feel like regular resistance training has helped me avoid some RSI - probably - but after 40 the injuries just come quicker and the recovery time keeps increasing no matter who you are or what your routine is.

As you get older, you learn the value of these little PT exercises as mentioned in the article. I can't vouch for them all but I do several, as suggested by my physical therapist. And this isn't just for computer use; the "be strong" advocates, as they age, will likely find they need to embrace physical therapy and targeted work on muscles throughout their body if they want to keep up their regular routine, too.

[meniscustear]

I’ll echo the sentiment that “being strong” helps keep many maladies at bay. However I cannot recommend Starting Strength for achieving it.

1. The weight and progression advocated by the book is dangerous. I personally had a meniscus tear while squatting 275lb. You might say I didn’t have proper form, but it just takes one moment’s lapse to permanently injure you.

2. I don’t think you need to lift extremely heavy weights to benefit. Largely I think the linear progression extolled by Starting Strength and its supporters are a way to gamify and motivate. But lifting heavier as the only goal may lead to injuries. Motivation can also be found in performing better at some sport.

3. Aesthetically speaking, SS is focused on the legs, glutes, and kinetic chain. Not enough attention is given to upper body. This can lead to strange body proportions. I believe much more focus should be given to the upper body.

[doopfoopdoop]

1. You didn't have "proper form", since a remotely correct squat shouldn't load the meniscus. Additionally, this is just fear-mongering: data tells us that the injury rate of lifting weights is astronomically low compared to almost any other sport. It has the added benefit that it actively prevents injuries in other aspects of life as well. All physical activity involves some risk, such are the constraints of a physical human existence.

2. You need to lift heavy to get strong. This is the only way to induce stress that causes the right adaptations for getting stronger.

3. The novice phase later introduces chin-ups and also of course has pressing and benching. The novice phase lasts--at maximum--about 8 months (when you're a 19-year-old 150 lb genetically gifted skeleton). After this, you become an intermediate and vastly diversify your exercise selection. It's here when you do a lot of upper body assistance and you really don't end up with strange proportions.

I mean, people that do the program correctly and actually do a linear progression on weighted chins don't end up with weird proportions, even in the novice phase. (Although they're not added in until later.)

[meniscustear]

Saying that lifting hundreds of pounds 5 times is the only way to get strong and measure of strength is one dimensional thinking. The natural progression from that is to lift heavier and heavier in contrived scenarios. That strength doesn’t transfer into other skills. Power lifting is a specialization. Few power lifters can do calisthenics staples such as muscle ups, flags, and front levers.

So, since the barbell method is not the only type of strength I stand by my assertion that SS is not a good program. Linear progression is dangerous. Within 8 months, a beginner will be hoisting hundreds of pounds in their squats and deadlifts. Not all of them will have proper form, and it just takes a small lapse in the biomechanical alignment to do lasting damage. Proper form is not something you can learn and enforce through a book or YouTube videos.

Then you might say that to do SS properly you should get advice on form and a personal trainer. This is a no true Scotsman argument: Anyone who gets injured did NOT follow the program properly.

[doopfoopdoop]

> Power lifting is a specialization.

Starting Strength is not powerlifting, and strength is a general adaptation. The fact that you do not know this makes me think you haven't read the book, and therefore are not in a position to argue against it.

> Few power lifters can do calisthenics staples such as muscle ups, flags, and front levers.

These are skilled movements and must be trained. If you're stronger, learning to do these things will be easier and quicker. (Since they are ultimately strength-based movements, as are most things, and strength is a general adaptation.)

> So, since the barbell method is not the only type of strength

The only type of strength is to produce a force against an external resistance. That's what strength is.

> Linear progression is dangerous. Within 8 months, a beginner will be hoisting hundreds of pounds in their squats and deadlifts.

Good, that's the goal. Their bodies adapted to the external stresses and became stronger. Now they've grown and are physically capable of lifting hundreds of pounds. How is this a negative?

> Not all of them will have proper form

We're talking about four basic movements here. Anyone that is persistent and possess enough intelligence to read SS (and is young enough) can, in fact, do these movements. Certain cases do need a coach, but that's the exception. (Except for very old people--they seem to require coaches.)

Anyway, I don't really understand your thesis: again, the data is telling: weight training is just about the safest form of physical activity. It's also just about the only form of physical activity that lets you precisely, numerically increase the weights such that you become stronger in a controlled, measured way. If you really believe that doing gymnastics (muscle-ups, flags) is safer than squatting, then you're delusional. (And the data strongly agrees with me here as well: injury rate for gymnastics and gymnastics-like sports (cheerleading) is rather high.) If you believe the physical benefits of doing gymnastics exceeds those of weight training, you're extra delusional. (No incremental loading, the lower body consists of muscle bellies that are just too large to load effectively with bodyweight.)

[meniscustear]

There’s no need to resort to name calling. I have read SS cover to cover and got injured at 26. So was I not young enough, or perhaps not smart enough?

I’m not the only one I know who has been injured doing the big 3. My coworker herniated his disk doing deadlifts (before I met him, just to clarify the causality).

I am not saying calisthenics is safer. I’m saying the big compound barbell movements will NOT get you universally strong. Squatting 3 plates is a specialization. Unless squatting hundreds of pounds is what you want to do, and eventually get into power lifting, Starting Strength is not a good recommendation. And I don’t think it is safe either.

[SamReidHughes]

The fact is some athletes avoid these dangerous lifts because they're dangerous. You can strengthen your wrists and get "strong" with safer workouts instead.

[Rapzid]

1. Meniscus tears can be incredibly random. The 2-3 I have experience with involved no extra load over body-weight. 275lb is a nothing burger in the scheme of things.

2. Are you seriously dismissing the incredible body of science that supports progressive overload?! Are you conflating strength gains with "performing better at some sport"?!

3. Starting Strength includes deadlift which works the entire back including upper. It also includes presses which work shoulders, triceps, traps, and a host of core muscles. Then there are bench presses which work the pecs, triceps, and shoulders as well.

[mirimir]

I totally agree about the importance of being strong. But I don't think that dead lifts are the only way to get strong enough.

You need the upper body strength to avoid supporting yourself on your wrists. They should just "float". Having good forearm support helps, but it's not enough if you're weak.

And core strength helps prevent back pain. Along with a chair that helps you sit up straight, and provides lumbar support.

Wrist curls and reverse wrist curls have also helped me a lot, for both wrists and elbows. I also use self-practice wrist locks for strengthening and stretching. Or with a rubber torsion rod.

[dehrmann]

> upper body strength to avoid supporting yourself

> And core strength helps prevent back pain

Sounds like a sales pitch for deadlifts.

Deadlifts are probably the most trainable movement for building strength in the most muscles, and muscles (upper back) that are weak if you sit at a desk.

[doopfoopdoop]

> But I don't think that dead lifts are the only way to get strong enough.

I think the key to getting strong is barbell exercises, because they can be precisely and incrementally loaded. (So you linearly progress.)

> And core strength helps prevent back pain.

Deadlifts, squats, and presses are all extremely good at developing "core" strength. Ab-specific exercises are not (they cannot be effectively loaded, and the loads are much smaller, and the spinal flexion/extension involved often aggravate existing back injury).

> chair that helps you sit up straight, and provides lumbar support.

If the chair is helping you, then you are not using your muscles and will continue to atrophy away. Lumbar support in general is not a good thing.

[mirimir]

I use free weights, sure.

But I've always preferred using lighter weights with lots of reps.

[GaryNumanVevo]

+1 Used to have TERRIBLE carpal tunnel, back pain, etc. Started rock climbing, with hand strengthening, back exercises, now I have less pain than I did in college.

[bosie]

How do you start rock climbing (one of the worst things to do with carpal tunnel) when you have carpal tunnel syndrome? Wouldn't the rock climbing/hand strengthening just make the situation much worse, quickly?

[GaryNumanVevo]

I’m not a physical therapist, so keep that in mind. The way I started was by doing hand strengthening with a grip trainer, coupled with some tendon stretches. My hands hurt the first few times, but you’ll find them getting stronger.

[LegitShady]

agreed, even light exercise will avoid many of these common issues.

People seem to think if they just sit right for 8 hours a day it will all work out ok. But if you have a weak body its not going to do that very well for very long.

[asdff]

certainly helps, but isn't the silver bullet. one summer all my brother did was play runescape and lift, and he ended up having to play with a wrist brace.