[jk3faster]

> What is the alternative for average consumers ? Chrome books ?

GNU/Linux! Any mainstream beginner friendly GNU/Linux distribution like Linux Mint or Ubuntu will be descent enough for average consumers. Unless you are heavily dependent on Adobe softwares(even then, you can consider dual boot), they are now much more elegant than windows. Getting quality support from forums is actually much easier with GNU/Linux. Last time when I had a problem with Windows 10, where everything saved to C:/ would disappear after restart, I was unable to get any useful support from their forums. On the other had, most problems I encounter while using a linux distribution is just a search away! I'm currently using Arch linux(before that I used Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora etc...), and my less technically inclined family uses Elementary OS. Try a linux distribution like Linux Mint or Kubuntu. It's worth the time!

[nroets]

Yes, personally I dual boot Ubuntu and Windows. But the problem is that many organizations I deal with are reinforcing Microsoft dominance by e.g. emailing me PDFs that only Acroread can open. If I want to fight these issues, I may need to resort to name dropping (Google, Apple) and other tactics.

[JoshTriplett]

> emailing me PDFs that only Acroread can open

Please post any examples of those to the evince project as a bug report.

[ThePowerOfFuet]

They're literally everywhere. I pulled this one off the top of my head:

https://www.aoc.cat/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/sol_cert_pers...

[bmn__]

Okular 1.8.2 says the document contains XFA forms and it's not yet supported. This is the first time I ever even heard of this. <https://enwp.org/XFA> says the technology is already deprecated.

I have used Okular many times for PDFs with embedded forms (no apparent special name). I think you should notify the originator of the unusable PDFs that they should redo the file with regular embedded forms so that they work in most PDF readers.

[yrro]

In my experience these are PDFs that embed JavaScript. I don't think there is much of an appetite for building yet another JS interpreter into the desktop...

[csydas]

As much as I love all that Linux offers and working with it, the culture isn't there for Linux to be mainstream, and it's not even about feature parity or user-friendliness anymore. It's that the minimum standard offered by Microsoft, Google, and Apple is quite good and many of the annoyances that folks who do have a preference on OSes and such are not bothersome in the least bit to your average user.

The problem with positioning Linux as an alternative to Windows/MacOS is that there is a very real alternative (and has been for some time) of just not having a Desktop OS at all; do everything mobile. It might be strange for some people here, but Mobile-only is a very common and real choice made nowadays, and Android/iOS make this a pretty darn comfortable option. While the advertising and telemetry and crapware is even worse on Mobile, this leads to the other part of the issue where, based on my experience, the average user is completely attuned to and just accepts the advertising without question. 10 second ads randomly played as part of an App is just seen as normal; the barrage of randomly placed animated banners, auto-play videos that scroll with you, over-zealous sign-up requirements are absolutely the norm now as the big players have made this a reality, and many people just do not think twice about such practices. Youtube, popular news sites, and other such things have normalized these practices and now it's not even a concern for many people.

I've had this conversation with many people even directly in IT/Development related fields and I'm sure I come off as a Stallmanite-esque nutcase when I voice my frustrations about Google, for example. I purposefully avoid Chrome because of its awful auto-updater tactics on MacOS which basically took pages from malware authors on how to ensure the service is always alive and present on your OS. When I explained this decision to colleagues, the response was confusion more than anything, and wondering why I even wanted to stop this. (Neverminding their frustration with Google when it changed the login handling for its services)

Linux as an alternative __does__ exist, but this is only if you care enough to want to seek an alternative in the first place. Putting aside the monstrous mountain of issues with the non-Linux OSes, it's never been a better time to be a Windows/MacOS/iOS/Android user. The OSes are stable as heck, cross-compatibility is very good for virtually whatever program/application you want, the OSes run great on virtually all hardware with no configuration. The only consideration most of the time is tiny personal preferences. And best of all, for 3 of 4 of the OSes above, you don't pay a single cent (directly) for any of them. Windows holds out, but I cannot imagine this lasting much longer either.

With all of the above considered, the question just becomes "why would any of the mythical 'average consumer' even want to consider Linux in the first place?" As depressing as this may sound (and defeatist), as long as it gets them to Facebook and Youtube (and Instagram/whatever other social media they want), why would they care what does it and/or what that OS is doing?

[acqq]

> I purposefully avoid Chrome because of its awful auto-updater tactics on MacOS which basically took pages from malware authors on how to ensure the service is always alive and present on your OS. When I explained this decision to colleagues, the response was confusion more than anything, and wondering why I even wanted to stop this.

I've noticed that on Windows as soon as Chrome appeared: they implemented a lot of malware-like concepts for the installation and updates even then. It never seemed right to me. And I still avoid Chrome as much as I can.

> the question just becomes "why would any of the mythical 'average consumer' even want to consider Linux in the first place?" As depressing as this may sound (and defeatist), as long as it gets them to Facebook and Youtube (and Instagram/whatever other social media they want), why would they care what does it and/or what that OS is doing?

My own issues: as much as I like Linux for programming, whenever I try to use Linux "just" to play videos on some non-gaming machine (and I've never bought gaming-only computers, and I'm sure an "average" user doesn't too), I still see significant problems compared with using Windows for the same task on the same machine. For various reasons it seems this joke still holds, even when removing "flash":

https://xkcd.com/619/

And my experience was even that those windowing environments promoted as "less demanding" aren't showing the videos better: they re maybe less demanding in some other aspects... but the videos which play smoothly on cheaper hardware is still a goal that is somehow hard to reach. My experience is similar to those I've had with music playing on Linuxes some decades ago, where every peace of the setup then worked against me simply being able to play (yes I've even tried modifying and rebuilding the drivers at these times...)

[type0]

> the average user is completely attuned to and just accepts the advertising without question. 10 second ads randomly played as part of an App is just seen as normal; the barrage of randomly placed animated banners, auto-play videos that scroll with you, over-zealous sign-up requirements are absolutely the norm now as the big players have made this a reality,

This is pavlovian conditioning at it's finest, yotube users know they need to wait a few second of ads before they can press <<skip>> button, they know they need to accept EULA and a few pages TOS, Privacy Policy and whatever before they can use the damn thing. Slowly but surely people learn that the number of choices they have are limited and they simply have to bow down to the digital feodalism of today.

[type0]

> I'm currently using Arch

Thank you for telling, how would anyone know otherwise.

[tuesday20]

Can you recommend good laptop that come with Linux installed?

[bmn__]

Choice is greatly diminished compared with ten years ago. I'm satisfied with http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

[jk3faster]

I currently use a ThinkPad, which came pre-installed with Windows. I wiped out windows and installed Linux. Then there are some Dell XPS laptops that comes with Linux installed.

[tuesday20]

Which thinkpad model?