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by amilein7minutes 2419 days ago
Bertand Russell, ahead of his time in his socio-political musings, as with foundations of mathematics.

Although the essay begins as though he is advocating for leisure for some privileged section of the society -- and one might especially suspect his position is thus given he himself was part of the old aristocracy by birth -- he explains not only that idleness being a collective right will elevate the society but also that it can be achieved. The time to have achieved it, in my opinion, has already passed and yet we continue to be "foolish", as he puts it.

His argument is so cogent that the following lines seem completely within reach for the society and paint the idea of paradise"

>>> In a world where no one is compelled to work more than four hours a day every person possessed of scientific curiosity will be able to indulge it, and every painter will be able to paint without starving, however excellent his pictures may be. Young writers will not be obliged to draw attention to themselves by sensational pot-boilers, with a view to acquiring the economic independence needed for monumental works, for which, when the time at last comes, they will have lost the taste and the capacity. Men who in their professional work have become interested in some phase of economics or government will be able to develop their ideas without the academic detachment that makes the work of university economists lacking in reality. Medical men will have time to learn about the progress of medicine. Teachers will not be exasperatedly struggling to teach by routine things which they learned in their youth, which may, in the interval, have been proved to be untrue.

2 comments

Personal anecdote: was going through a tough time in my life (early 20s), and was hating my major in school, dealing with a failed relationship, feeling like my peers outclassed me in every aspect, etc.

Was suicidal.

Spent some time in mental health facilities (urban Canada, free and open access for citizens). Surprised to see the diversity in the homeless/low-income population (which makes up a significant chunk of the population in mental health facilities). Former aerospace engineers, electrical engineers, teachers...and of course, students (like myself).

My mental health is another story, not relevant to the topic at hand. The mental health facilities where I had to spend time are relevant though: some of them didn't allow devices (privacy concerns for others in the facility), and there was a lot of time to kill. Time was spent ruminating, reading, and writing (yay for the public library). Incredibly productive, in large part because given where I was, I felt so far gone, that I no longer needed to worry about what I was doing/how well I was doing it/what I should be doing, etc.

I had already failed in all those judgements/metrics. Now, nothing to do, but to do.

Coming out of facilities, started to get caught up in old life (getting job offer from internship firm). Could no longer tolerate it. Was ballsy, having just literally faced death, and simply walked out of work. Ballsy because I was literally throwing away my future. How would I earn money?

Ended up bunking with my parents. That's one edge I had even when I was in the mental health facilities. Most of those homeless people I mentioned? Homeless because of lack of family support.

Sat down at home. Reached out to professors doing work in the sort of things I felt genuinely interested in. The rest has been reasonably productive history, with more on the way.

Point of this anecdote: the value of leisure time is something I feel very strongly about. It's what helped liberate me, and I only had it because of privilege (parents). I find it rather sad that there are so many people that disagree with arguments along the lines of "people are motivated by money, if they didn't have to work for money, they wouldn't do anything with their time".

And judgementalism regarding low-income/disabled/homeless individuals. Heard this from a PhD student at uni, when I was telling him about how I always worry I might end up homeless some day: "Don't worry, you won't end up homeless. Everyone here (i.e. including me) is too smart/valuable to end up homeless."

Couldn't help but laugh (internally). Remembered the Russian electrical engineer who gave me an old Russian (Soviet era? not sure) text on linear electrical circuits while I was in CAMH (Toronto). He was a patient there too. I don't think he knew that I couldn't read Russian...

He was homeless, and was helping me pass the time the way he would. I still have that book with me today.

I hope you're all okay, wherever you are. I believe in you, because I believe in the power of the human spirit. We are driven by more than survival.

Thank you for sharing. Years ago I realized most of us are either toiling away at work for something we don't care about to profit someone we don't know, or being blocked from the resources they need to tap into their unique potential (whether that's food security, education, etc). It became somewhat of an obsession. I couldn't stop thinking about how many brilliant, colorful individuals are out there with their unique talents being left off to the side, despite the productivity gains we've seen in recent centuries. We clearly have the capacity to ensure everyone has access to pursue what makes their mind light up and yearn to create, but here we still are. Structured in a way that each job I've worked is non-essential, takes almost all of my creative energy, and does not push us forward. Meanwhile, many others who are capable of great things, can't even begin to tap into that when they don't know where their next meal might come

I feel like I'm rambling a bit, but I guess I just wanted to echo similar thoughts and say your post brought me some relief knowing others see it too . It's something I don't think about as much anymore because I don't quite know what to do about it, but I hope as more of us see this isn't an efficient or healthy way to organize ourselves,we can work together and figure out how to let our true colors flourish

> I couldn't stop thinking about how many brilliant, colorful individuals are out there with their unique talents being left off to the side

Apparently, their talents aren't that appreciated by the general society - otherwise, they'd get paid for them.

Excellent points, thank you. And congratulations on the results!

I’m curious how relatively content-free entertainment works into your calculus. It seems like a lot of people get sidetracked into it, and it is becoming more psychologically compelling and personalized/varied over time. (A lot of “sensational pot-boilers” are now being generated, as it were.)

> I’m curious how relatively content-free entertainment works into your calculus.

It's an issue I struggle with. My problematic relatively content-free entertainment is video games, youtube, and reddit. Two issues form the basis of the problem:

* desire for escape: becomes particularly strong when my future feels bleak, or the stresses due to life seem too much, or when I feel lonely

* addiction: wanting to completely quench "curiosity"---in quotations because I'm not sure if its the right word---basically feeling like I _need_ to "fully explore" a particular story/world/game world/game mechanic (e.g. the random crafting systems in some "action RPGs", which are basically gambling)

What helps:

* (escapism) realizing that imaginary worlds simply do not compare in depth to the real world; paying attention to how I feel once I am done binging a TV show/when I hit the limits of game mechanics/realize that there are no Wikipedia articles for learning more about some story world I am into

* (escapism) managing anxieties regarding the dangers of the real world (e.g. not being smart enough to explore the real world, going hungry, feeling that I lack discipline, etc.) by being non-judgemental, and accepting wherever I am right now, rather than worrying about the future

* (escapism) trying to systematically cultivate awareness and self-kindness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ap_-F9D5Gw) in order to be non-judgemental about who I am, and accepting of where I am in life/not try to predict the future.

* (escapism) one thing that I think could help me deal with escapism is to develop a robust social life in a setting which isn't work/research related. This is something that terrifies me, so its a project I have left for the future. I know for a fact though that a lot of my reddit binging is basically trying to fill the socialization shaped hole in my heart.

* (addiction) learning about the techniques used to foster addiction (https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-scientists-who-mak...) so that even while I am addicted, I can at least identify what is helping me be addicted---this is useful in kind of detaching myself from my addiction, and observe it in a way that gives me more control over it. On a similar note: analysis of movies presented by youtube channels like RedLetterMedia are both fun to watch, and useful in understanding the entertainment we binge on in a deeper way. Thus, when you're watching something, one ends up having occasional "detachments" which remind you that you are consuming a human-made product. This helps to ground me in reality.

* (addiction) realizing that addiction isn't a terrible thing, it's just a tool (developed by evolution) that can be misused. So, I try not to judge myself for it, and instead have ended up making a hobby out of trying to imagine how addiction can be "harnessed" into "motivation" for education (game design, thinking about what makes math fun when I do get "sucked into it", and so on. I hope one day I can earn money making products which are "addictive", in a productive way (i.e. teaching useful skills and exploring difficult/beautiful things which require a sequential build-up of concepts over a period of time).

* (overall) being willing to forgive myself for my daily failures, in order to move beyond self-pity and helplessness. In fact, being addicted/struggling with escapism has had some positives: it has motivated me to learn about how to make products which harness these feelings in a useful way! Silver lining? Not sure.

* (overall) It's worth noting that we are discussing the value of idleness, without judging how productive that idle time is.

Also, regarding non-judgementalness of self and others: there is some great info in this thread too. In particular CTRL+F for "Thaler".

Thanks for writing that up
Funny. That other famous philosopher, Karl Marx, had a similar take on free time and its effect on people in Fundamentals of Criticism of Political Economy. Only heard that second hand though.
And similarly on the specialisation of labour and having to do one thing eight hours a day monotonously:

“For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic.”

Heinlein had the same idea! “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

Keynes, also, looked forward to a time with widespread idleness without poverty.