| I'm saying that balance isn't important. Science progresses by refinement of mathematical models, by crafting of narratives, by thought experiments, and by the simplifying and compressing actions of institutionalization and education. It's irritating to be accused of not reading. Sabine's not exactly easy reading, but let's start at the top: > In the foundations of physics, we have not seen progress since the mid 1970s when the standard model of particle physics was completed. Ever since then, the theories we use to describe observations have remained unchanged. Sure, some aspects of these theories have only been experimentally confirmed later. The last to-be-confirmed particle was the Higgs-boson, predicted in the 1960s, measured in 2012. Oh, and why did it take half a century to confirm the Higgs? What is glossed over is that the confirmation of the Standard Model required particle accelerators, either ones we built or ones we improvised using Sol as a radiation source. We theorized, we imagined, and then we experimented and confirmed. Along the way, we discovered multiple different supporting reasons why things are the way that they are, and demolished various optimistic hopes that the answers to our questions would be simple. To zoom out, Sabine has been slowly building up a campaign of doubting gravitational-wave observation technology. I feel like her position is that any big-science expenditure is a poor use of public funds, and that she is willing to work backwards from those conclusions. Protip: When somebody argues against a specific thing that people are doing, but otherwise argues for the status quo, to "continue all that has worked" but "discard [a] new approach that hasn't", they are really arguing for exclusion of that specific thing. Okay, fine, but why and to what end? I feel sometimes like this is an argument that particle accelerators are a waste of public funds. (See also: top of thread.) Y'know, you are the only person saying that I'm agreeing with you and Sabine, and then you gripe that I'm somehow saying nothing. I feel that I'm directly addressing your attempts at communication. You aren't going to make progress by accusing me of failing to commit to a position when I've been pretty open about my position from the start and when your position is framed in opposition to the thread-starting comment. |
Ok, now I finally understand your disagreement with Hossenfelder. BTW, I neither agree nor disagree with her. I'm not a physicist, I just don't think her argument, if her description of the facts is reasonable, is so obviously silly, so I'm interested to know what those of her fellow physicists who disagree with her argue.
So if I understand you correctly, you agree with her premise that the gap between hypothesis and experiment is widening, but you think it's OK. She says that this view is overly optimistic, and clearly you disagree with that conclusion. I'm curious to know how you justify this optimism. Is it just because you think there is no other way or do you see some more concrete reasons for optimism?
> What is glossed over is that the confirmation of the Standard Model required particle accelerators
I don't think it's glossed over at all. I think her point is that the rising cost of experimentation should have an impact on theory as well.
> We theorized, we imagined, and then we experimented and confirmed.
Right, and I think she would say that a great percentage of the work being done now has no feasible plan for experimentation within a century, so instead of spending that time on speculation, why not let the feasibility of experimentation at least educate the theoretical focus?
> To zoom out, Sabine has been slowly building up a campaign of doubting gravitational-wave observation technology. I feel like her position is that any big-science expenditure is a poor use of public funds, and that she is willing to work backwards from those conclusions.
You may well be right about this. Not being a physicist, and not knowing her record aside from that one article, which I found to be very well-argued, I have no additional knowledge on the matter.