[ghaff]

The tech crowd is really big on cutting out people when the reality is that people are 1.) Pretty versatile, even in fairly routine jobs, handling unexpected events and 2.) Often aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. Even personal transportation (taxis, etc.) drivers are only about half the cost. That's certainly not nothing. But it's also not the difference between expensive and almost too cheap to meter.

[TomMarius]

Would you want to be a metro driver?

[jnty]

It's a dream job for many people, and is an extremely skilled job when dealing with technical problems and emergencies is taken into account. There's a lot of worse jobs we should get rid of first.

[TomMarius]

A garbage truck man is also a dream job for many people. Then the reality hits. I don't think we should simply not improve something when there's an opportunity because "there are other jobs to automate". Well yeah, there are, but the opportunity is there, not with the other jobs. There are many people in the world, we're capable of parallel innovation.

[gcfffgfg]

Garbage men report real high levels of job satisfaction. When asked why, they’re answer is simple: everyday the job gives their life meaning - they clean up for others and for everyone. Their role is fundamentally important.

Contrast this with my job. Energy researcher. Let’s assume energy research is necessary. Odds are that in my career I won’t make a ground breaking discovery. So I get up drag myself to work knowing that most likely than not nothing I will do that day will mean anything to anyone.

Not to say that sanitation work shouldn’t be automated. But the lack of respect for ppl’s livelihoods commonly shown in HN, or in general neoliberal circles, is astonishing.

[TomMarius]

I really don't think you should call me a neoliberal (and I am not sure what it means, but I am definitely not a part of the group that is commonly described as that). I am not sure what lack of respect are you seeing there, I have massive respect for the people doing the jobs I wouldn't mentally be able to do. That does not mean we should not innovate just because (still haven't heard a single reason other than "these are prestigious jobs" which is not really a reason), especially in a case where the technology is rather simple and available for several decades, well proven. A computer (as in human profession) used to be a prestigious job as well; so was a writer.

[yardie]

Do you know any garbage men? Also the proper term I sanitation worker. It’s a critical job that literally keeps you from dying of highly contagious diseases.

Most of the automated trash collection services haven’t automated much. They simply moved the responsibility of rolling the bins to the curb from the workers to the residents. Now it’s my job to wake up at 5am to move the bin to the street so the grappling arm can catch it. And then move it back to the house before 8am or get fined.

[gcfffgfg]

Where do you live that you have to take it out at 5 and bring it back by 8? That sucks!

[yardie]

I live in the city now. Previously I lived in an upper-middle class florida suburb. A long time ago, the trash collector was a 3-man team and one would roll the bin from the side of your house to the truck, then back. Now that they city has "automated trucks" the driver never leaves the cab. You roll the bin to the curb and the robot arm takes care of the last 5 feet. Lots of cities have ordinances about when and how long you can leave the trash bin out. And you should not leave them out overnight less you have wild animals digging through your trash.

[dsfyu404ed]

I'm not going to weigh in on what should or shouldn't be automated but the trash/recycling industry is generally a pretty fulfilling place to work because you basically never have adversarial interactions with people and the impact of your work is immediately obvious. This is why many people prefer to run scrap and drive garbage trucks instead of flip burgers and drive bus.

Of course the compensation and working hours aren't as good as the six figure office jobs most people here have but dealing with refuse is pretty decent compared to other jobs of similar pay.

[betaby]

Answer to that question going to prove what? In my city metro drivers are unionized and paid on pair with software developers. Similar for bus. There is absolutely no shortage of the bus or metro drivers.

[TomMarius]

I am not saying it is not well paid. But when you try the work (I did for a day), you realize that you spend whole days in tunnels, mindlessly pushing a button, waiting for a computer to finally and rightfully replace you. Even worse job than being a bus driver (which is IMHO way worse than being a taxi driver).

[jnty]

So all jobs you personally dislike should be abolished?

[TomMarius]

I am sure the people who enjoy driving metro can do so in VR. Why would we forcefully hold onto a job that wastes human potential?

Maybe the issue is the difference in my understanding of human potential. There is simply so much more to do for these people that I can't see why someone would want to forcefully hold onto old ways. Why would you force a person to spend all days in tunnels?

Technology for automated metro is there for many years. Not using it is foolish. If you don't like people losing jobs, simply take the savings and employ the people elsewhere in the city, e.g. as bus drivers.

[PhasmaFelis]

If want to help humans achieve their full potential, you need to have a system in place to enable that before you automate away their jobs. If you replaced all train conductors with robots today, most of them will wind up desperately scrambling for another (probably worse) unfulfilling job to keep food on the table.

[gcfffgfg]

Maybe human potential isn’t that great. At least not for most people.

At a local grocery store they employ mentally handicap people to man the check out counters. They aren’t even aware that the automated counters make their jobs totally useless.

They are extremely slow at checkout.

And yet, I am very pleased with this grocery store because they’ve given a menial task to people who would otherwise have nothing. A chance to be in society and interact with us. Maybe, given the self checkout, it’s theater; but I don’t care. What’s the alternative for these people? Euthanasia? Do you see value in their lives?