[jonfw]

> made up numbers

And here lies the problem- you're using made up numbers.

Obviously if we can cut healthcare spending while expanding access while maintaining our contribution to medica innovation, that would be a great thing. People just don't think that it's remotely realistic.

Obamacare wasn't cheap

Medicare and medicaid are very expensive and don't achieve the same results that the private industry does.

Are VA hospitals as good as private ones? Absolutely not- and these are when the government has the opportunity to provide for a demographic that is a small minority of the population and is likely to have bipartisan support.

IMO- the only argument for socialized healthcare is healthcare as a human right. The idea that the government will magically become superior to private industry at spending money is completely unrealistic.

[redblacktree]

You and I may disagree on how effectively-run a government single-payer would be vs. private insurance (and there is no reason to believe they couldn't co-exist), but let's set that aside for the moment.

My intent in making this post was really to call out the fact that, even for those of us lucky enough to have coverage through our employers, we're still paying quite a bit in premiums. So the net effect of public healthcare may be positive, flat or something else, but it isn't just a new tax and reduction in your paycheck. You stop paying a premium and start paying a tax.