[AlexeyBrin]

It would be great if there would be a free tier for people that want to learn C++ with VS. Something that lets you use VS online for small C++ programs (similar with Compiler Explorer but with support for running the generated binary) to build and run these small programs.

[DoubleFree]

Compiler explorer actually supports running the binary now!

[AlexeyBrin]

I know but only for GCC and Clang, not for MSVC.

[einpoklum]

No, it would not be great.

We should not condone luring people into reliance on closed proprietary technology with "free tiers".

It would be great if people organized and got Intellectual Property thoroughly de-legitimized.

[colechristensen]

What's left? What can you own and control and sell and restrict?

The Chinese economy doesn't have intellectual property restrictions to speak of, would you prefer that economy? (everything is a copy of a copy of a copy and most of it is terrible)

How do specialist tools get created, things of high value which take a lot of work to produce and have only a small number of users?

We use money and restrictions on property to allocate resources, if you take that away there is still allocation, but is it always better? (say, squabbling wikipedia or stackoverflow zealots)

[einpoklum]

1. Intellectual Property is not about "allocation of resources". IP is not physical property (which is a separate question). IP is the threat of punishment for using or copying information.

2. The Chinese economy actually has plenty of IP restrictions (e.g. Huawei is very keen on patents); and China is a signatory to the Berne convention. Some Chinese corporations may have failed to observe it, but this is not legal.

3. How would specialist tools get created? Depends on whether the economy is more Capitalist or less so. Maybe large corporations need those tools and will put money into consortia which produce them. Maybe there are lots of small organizations, public/state organs, and/or individual artisans/professionals which need them - so either they pool resources, or the government funds such projects. If the economy is not money-based, then it's a different kettle of fish.

[AlexeyBrin]

I prefer a pragmatic solution and I encourage people to test their code with all available major C++ compilers (GCC, Clang and MSVC).

[einpoklum]

I agree that, as developers, we can't ignore people who use MSVC on Windows. But we shouldn't encourage _this_ kind of initiative, especially among junior developers. They shouldn't be caught in the web of depending on Microsoft for things.

[kkarakk]

eh, we're already seeing that with all the "free" online IDEs that have proliferated. i've switched all my python code kata-ing to microsoft azure jupyter notebooks for eg, used to use cloud9 before they got bought out by amazon