[blotter_paper]

> And a so-called "neutral" person is, by not taking action, implicitly supporting the dominant narrative

Strongly disagree, this would imply that an individual's support of a narrative can change simply by the environment around them changing while the individual stays static.

Three Christians, two athiests, and an agnostic are sitting at a bar. Does the agnostic support Christianity? Two of the Christians leave. Does the agnostic now support atheism?

[philipov]

If the Christians are bullying the athiests, and the agnostic does nothing, then yes, they are implicitly supporting the actions taking place in their vicinity. If they're just all sitting around doing nothing, the implicit support is of them sitting around doing nothing.

[whatshisface]

Every moment you're not actively working for the FBI homicide department, you're commiting implicit murders.

[philipov]

Yes, people are fine with all sorts of murders and other atrocities taking place, as long as its not happening to them. As long as the right kind of people suffer. Your phrasing is wrong, of course, because you're conflating support for something with committing the act yourself, but you're not too far off the mark.

[shkkmo]

If you are present for a murder and you do nothing to either prevent it or report it, then yes, you are complicit in the murder.

[eitland]

This is an extremely bad example for two reasons:

- one: you are bringing religion into a discussion where it isn't necessary

- two: it hangs in a frame where a causual passer-by might think this is usual. I mean: if I write "if the rabbits chases the cats and the dogs do nothing" an hypothetical reader who knows nothing about cats and rabbits might easily get the idea that this is a common occurrence, while in fact it is fact a very unusual one.

[philipov]

- one: not my example; it was introduced by someone as a rhetorical jab by trying to introduce an emotionally-charged subject. The point doesn't depend on religion in any particular way, and I'm happy to rephrase it.

- two: I think this is fine. In an example where a bunch of people are sitting in a bar and a big group starts bullying a smaller group, someone who does nothing is allowing this to happen, and we can attribute moral responsibility for them allowing this to happen. Just because everyone knows that it's normal for someone to always get bullied by the larger group doesn't make it okay. If someone doesn't know or understand that bullying is wrong, assigning moral responsibility is more complicated, but neither of those things depend on their knowledge of the frequency of bullying. There is a way in which available information is important, but not this one.

[eitland]

> Just because everyone knows that it's normal for someone to always get bullied by the larger group doesn't make it okay.

Hmmmm. I think you managed to sneak in another subtle error:

If that was your idea then, at least in an Internet context, you should probably write about how Atheists are bullying Christians.

I'd avoid this example at all. It feels contrived and either you intended it or not it smears a good number of innocent people.

Use something neutral instead:

Group a and group b or something.

[philipov]

> Group a and group b or something.

I referred to the groups as "The Larger Group" and "The Smaller Group." I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[skinkestek]

Ok, let me spell it out then:

Writing - especially in an Internet forum context - about Christians bullying Atheists

is about as fitting as

- in a historic context - writing an example about Jews killing Nazis. Yes, it has happened, more than once. And no, for some reason that doesn't make it a good example except when we are discussing that particular topic.

Besides, as was mentioned above you are both pulling an unrelated group of people into this and you are pulling religion into an argument about something else.

Snide remarks like that is equally annoying regardless of if they come from you or from the old relative who always wants to frame everything good that happens as a miracle from $DEITY

Both you and the old relative might mean it well and get som points from people who agree with you but on the larger scale it only increases tension.

[threatofrain]

Religion is absolutely part of the negotiation of power (politics). It is, after all, still 2019, but I think this will be so even in Dune.

[siosonel]

Did the Christians try to convince the agnostic about something? If not, nothing changes before or after they leave.

Anyway, the OP was about political ads that can affect how people vote, a decision to vote or not affects the community. Being agnostic about something (aliens) does not necessarily have the same gravity of effect as believing in a political ad.

[usaphp]

People in your example are not “neutral” in the first place.