[ErneX]

We are talking about a region of Spain that in 1978 voted YES to approve the Spanish constitution. One of the wealthiest regions of an EU member. This is not an oppressed or punished population, the right of self determination does not apply to it when it's an autonomous region that is part of a functioning modern democracy. Even ex-UN chief Ban Ki-moon agreed on this:

https://www.thejournal.ie/catalan-independence-ban-ki-moon-2...

[tassl]

> We are talking about a region of Spain that in 1978 voted YES to approve the Spanish constitution.

More reductionist argument. Catalonia, and any other region in Spain voted between a constitution and a possible new dictatorship. Trying to imply that, since a group of people signed something 40 years ago, everybody in that region is rejecting their rights not explicitly expressed in that constitution is dishonest. And what is worst, the argument seems to be made that it will remain like this forever or until the majority of Spain decides. Again, the tyranny of the majority.

> the right of self determination does not apply to it when it's an autonomous region

The right of self determination is not yours (or Ban Ki-Moon) to give, it is for people to take.

> that is part of a functioning modern democracy

Clearly it doesn't function that well, or most [1] Catalans wouldn't be so eager to leave.

[1] http://icps.cat/recerca/sondeigs-i-dades/sondeigs/sondeigs-d...

[yiyus]

Read that report you linked. According to it, most Catalans are not so eager to leave as you say (and I would not call it an impartial source). For example, in page 4 you can clearly see: 43.6% wants an independent Catalunya, but 48.2% wants to remain being a part of Spain.

Why is the tyranny of the majority wrong (this is what most people would call democracy) but you see no problem with the tyranny of a minority?

[tassl]

Most would vote Yes to independence. Most would rather have a different relationship with Spain and yes, a big chunk of people would have liked to remain in Spain with increased autonomy. Since this seems impossible and the direction Spain is taking is the opposite, with strong repression, people that were not pro independence would vote Yes in a referendum.

> Why is the tyranny of the majority wrong (this is what most people would call democracy) but you see no problem with the tyranny of a minority?

Tyranny of the majority is not what you think it is. It happens when a some minority is part of a larger group that limits their freedom because of its larger number. This minority is usually focused on a specific region, and one of the the tools used by the majority to restrict this freedom is centralization and uniformity.

A good example of this are the 32 laws the Catalan government tried to push that the Spanish government sent to the constitutional court to be banned [1]. As a reminder, members of the constitutional court are selected by the main Spanish parties.

[1] https://ca.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_de_recursos_o_sent%C3...

[yorwba]

What Ban Ki-Moon is quoted as saying in that article just amounts to Catalonia not being on the UN's list of Non-Self-Governing Territories ( https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt ) That does not mean the right to self-determination does not apply, just that the UN doesn't literally consider Catalonia to be a Spanish colony.