[oil25]

> For some of us, security == anonymity.

I don't follow. How is security equal to anonymity? If anything, security is what enables privacy, which could enable anonymity. There are plenty of circumstances where you need security, but not anonymity - for example a message to your partner. Of course if you do need anonymity, there's a lot more involved than simply installing a "secure app" or anything of that sort.

> Tying your identity to a phone number that can only be obtained by handing a telecom your government identity documents fails.

I don't know about that in the US. I was able to open a pre-paid T-Mobile account to use with my LineageOS Android device without identity verification. Perhaps it is different elsewhere now?

> And I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but uploading entire contact lists should also not be considered a natural feature of a secure mobile messenger.

That sounds troubling, is it what Signal does? Would like to read more about that - is there a Github issue for reference?

[jen_h]

I’ve got this crazy feeling that you’re not asking these questions in good faith, especially if you don’t understand how anonymity is important for people using secure messengers or need a Github issue to inform you about a feature long-discussed in the app.

[oil25]

It was asked in good faith and I did explain my reasoning for why anonymity and security are different concepts. Have you got a citation for the claim that Signal "uploads entire contact lists" or was this just FUD?

[jen_h]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Contact_disc...

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007319011-Ed...

https://signal.org/blog/contact-discovery/

But if you don't believe anonymity is an important component for security, you probably think hashes uploaded and deleted are perfectly secure, too, so we're probably not going to come to any agreement here.

Personally, I do wish they'd decouple from phone numbers and allow users an option not to transmit hashes for their entire contact list. I don't think these are unreasonable features for a messenger that's supposed to be designed for privacy and activism.