[Flozzin]

I don't support organic because of climate change. Organic is hopefully better than the normal farming practices that dump chemicals on nature just to get better yield. Regular farming practices(using pesticides and herbicides) has been linked to declines in wildlife populations. It's my hope that organic is less harmful to wildlife and human life.

This article isn't that helpful in my view. It calls for the status quo because current practices produce more on less. But the status quo is bad as well. So the take away is both things are bad.

Well great, let's stay on this path while all our insects and birds die, but at least global warming is still on the rise.../s

[Nicksil]

> ...normal farming practices that dump chemicals on nature just to get better yield. Regular farming practices(using pesticides and herbicides) ...

Organic farming absolutely uses pesticides and herbicides. In fact they often must use more of it and at greater frequency than conventional farming methods because the organic variants are inferior. This also requires more frequent use of heavy farming machinery for the application process.

> Well great, let's stay on this path while all our insects and birds die, but at least global warming is still on the rise.../s

Well, no, there are MANY people working toward improving the "status quo" but are often derided or dismissed when they begin talking about advances in pesticides, herbicides, and GMOs. Those are all dirty words in the minds of a few, loud special interests. Those special interests then hock their pseudo-science missives to conscience-minded, consuming society and, before you know it, you have a sizable group of people convinced that the right way to go for a more healthy, sustainable planet is "organic" agriculture.

That's the damn tragedy of it all. Decent, well-meaning people, genuinely concerned for their -- and others' -- health, aggressively pursuing the path that leads them further from their ideal.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> Organic farming absolutely uses pesticides and herbicides. In fact they often must use more of it and at greater frequency than conventional farming methods because the organic variants are inferior.

Got a citation for that? I've always been under the impression that organic farming by definition doesn't use pesticides and herbicides, and that's why they're more expensive. The yields are lower because of some crops being eaten by insects, and quality is lower due to having to battle weeds devouring nutrients from the soil. Is this not accurate?

[Nicksil]

Information on herbicide/pesticide use in organic farming is abundant. A quick search (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=organic+farming) will yield plenty to begin research. Due diligence is necessary given the mass of mis/dis-information, turning fact-finding into a much more difficult process for the laymen (like me) than it should be, but seek many sources, develop a consensus.

HN user "widowlark" posted (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21337495) a link to a "Scientific American" article which you may find useful: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogs...

The Wikipedia article on "Organic farming" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming) has a section-or-two discussing the practice; it'll provide a decent jumping-off point for further research.

[franzmafka]

This is obviously a bit facetious but would you consider a duck a pesticide? Small scale artisan farmers are always looking for better solutions and often find them. A distinction needs to be made between a true organic small producer and a conventional farmer chasing an organic label and those extra dollars per pound.

[widowlark]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogs...

[Sohcahtoa82]

Thank you for this.

Come to think of it, I do seem to recall at one point reading about organic farming using "natural" pesticides and ending up needing to use more of them because they're less effective.

[Flozzin]

I've read the articles about why organic can be worse than regular farming. Which is why I used the word 'hopefully'. I fully realize that organics can use chemicals, it's just that their chemicals are 'approved'.

However, once again, we have just torn down organic, and left people with the status quo. I've yet to read about any studies talking about wildlife populations bouncing back because of the advances in pesticides, herbicides, and GMOs. I have however read several articles recently about the sharp declines in insect populations like I mentioned before.

This brings me back to me original complaint. Everything is bad. Nothing is helping.

And because regular farming is bad, and organic is bad, I can't make a difference. There is no viable third option(I don't care to hear about how I can buy land and grow my own everything, and weave my own clothing).

If you want the status quo. This is what you do. You shoot down every new path.