[juskrey]

I had a pretty intense honeymoon with Estonia, even had a relatively popular blog on e-residency, have visited Estonia twice (great experience btw)..

And, after four years, I have reopened my company in UK and trying to liquidate my Estonian one (today I have received a denial letter which says that only Estonian citizen can close my company)..

In short: Vague frequently changing rules, introduction of strange complex regulations over time (e.g. contact person, management board member tax which is kinda avoidable or not at the same time - "Schrodinger tax").. Expensive business services and accountants (yes, US and UK are cheaper!), volatile tax rules interpretations.. Lack of googlable good information overall, and local accountants are not that hi level pros in nomadic IT matters at all. Also totally non-cooperative Estonian banks.

Upon all of that, UK manages doing everything without fragile e-card, which, honestly, adds more anxiety over access loss instead of benefits. Has TONS AND TONS of proper official information with tutorials. Generations of good accountants and stable business and tax regulations.

[Mirioron]

As an Estonian I thought the e-residency system was pretty much a scam from the start. I didn't think anybody would fall for it, because the moment you ask "So what can I do as an e-resident that I couldn't before?" you realize that the answer is essentially "Nothing". But try saying this to other Estonians, they'll raise a fuss.

Edit: perhaps calling it a scam is inappropriate. It just doesn't seem like the program offers anything new over what other countries offer. I guess the nice thing is that it tries to be a package deal that's easier to market and find information about.

[juskrey]

Well, I wouldn't certainly call it a scam from the start, still at some point e-residency PR team have indeed started to disseminate lies, deliberately telling only some better parts of the story or manipulating the narrative etc (which of course some will call marketing, I call BS).

Like with those nasty surprises when in reality you need to "know" some Estonian to start and stop a company.

[repomies691]

Similar experience with Estonia. It is way overhyped to what it is in practice. It is quite tiny and poor country, and understandably they try to attract foreign business and investors. However just some e-residency card which is not that useful in practice doesn't solve that. The general operating environment feels like that old fusty soviet union, and that is just not that easy problem to solve.

[juskrey]

Not that it really feels like old Soviet (I was born in really "Old Soviet" one), but it surely has a bad PR taste targeted on "influencers", VC media and fellow bureaucrats from other countries (like they constantly trying to win some bureaucratic Oscar or something), instead of entrepreneurs, and all of that have become very irritating in the last couple of years.

[juped]

Sounds like they're running it like a tech company.

[ticmasta]

So what you're saying is they are running the country like a start-up?

[redisman]

> Has TONS AND TONS of proper official information with tutorials.

I'm not too familiar with the e-residence in Estonia but I'm not surprised that a country of 1.3M people that fairly recently escaped from underneath the iron curtain doesn't have the resources of the big EU countries who have had centuries of financial power. I'll say starting a business in the US was 100x easier than the EU countries I've stayed in.

[juskrey]

This is true, still I am, as a, so to say, customer, just making a choice which works better, that was my point.

BTW have started a company in US also - can confirm that was also easy. But one needs to have a bank account in US, and US banks are not remote friendly, after opening an account too (I had an accident with account locking, lots of grey hair from nothing). I know Stripe Atlas makes this easier now.

Also my experience in UK proves it is not exactly a EU - much easier too. And GOV.UK is something extraordinary.

[leowoo91]

> I have received a denial letter which says that only Estonian citizen can close my company

so in order to close your company, you need some citizen to acquire it first?

[juskrey]

You must appoint someone from Estonia as an official liquidator, effectively paying for that to some accounting firm. Otherwise that would be just filling pretty simple online form.

At they same time they have allowed me to appoint myself first through that form and kept me waiting 5 days.. (The e-resident system is supposed to know who am I, right?) Go figure.

[kapuasuite]

The point about the accountants is interesting - might be a good opportunity to reach out to the professional association for Estonian accountants (if such a thing exists) to give some feedback.

[juskrey]

This is just not a mature market. Also I suspect there are separate markets for locals and foreigners..

Just a business address can be easily 5x of what one has to pay in US or EU, and this is given Estonian govt really doesn't send you any letters there, in UK and US does.

BTW just learned company closure takes months and 400-1600 EUR, depending on whom you ask..

[throw130]

Sure, I agree UK is a better option. Are you a UK resident though?

I'm a EU resident and I have heard there is no way to open a business bank account in the UK without living there (i.e. without NI number + rent contract + utility bills).

If anyone has any info on how to run a UK company with a local bank account (not with an Internet bank) without being a UK resident, I'm all ears.

[juskrey]

I'm not a UK resident and running it with Transferwise borderless account, and have opened several accounts in other fintech banks as an experiment as well.

As for Estonia, de facto e-residents have to open accounts in internet and non Estonian banks too.

[throw130]

Do you trust Transferwise borderless (or other fintech banks) with more than $50k?

Btw which service did you use to open the company and for accounting in the UK?

In Estonia I have an LHV account, without any problems.