[cookie_monsta]

I don't really get the ongoing obsession with We/Softbank. I kind of got the whole schadenfreude side of it when it all came tumbling down but now it's just turned into a story of a big company trying to dig itself out of a hole created by some dumb decisions it made.

Is there some larger relevance that I'm missing?

[Traster]

Wework and softbank are interesting because they pretty much show you the limits of private equity and tech disruption. Wework was so far away from technology it was fascinating to see the story around it and how it ran its business. Softbank is really interesting because of their role, the unique position its in because of how deep its pockets are, and how the timing of WeWork's story has interacted with SoftBank's raising for the Vision fund. If you want to see how crazy things in PE can go, you can make a good argument that you should be looking at Softbank - with their positions in ARM, uber, Alibaba, Boston Dynamics, Slack, Wag. I mean, we can have an entire conversation about Wag.

But also, this story isn't over. This story has been almost an unmitigated catastrophe for the last year and yet this news is telling you that Softbank think that WeWork is currently still the most valuable company in the office rental space despite everything. It also tells you softbank isn't just funded a tonne of companies and are willing to let them go big or collapse - they don't seem able to walk away from WeWork. The reason this is interesting is because this is now raising big red flags about how Softbank's investment portfolio is looking - and it'll be interesting when we hear whether they start to suffer because of it.

[rattray]

For one thing, I'd argue it's important for startups to understand how Softbank behaves as an investor, since they are a fund many companies might consider taking money from. They have an outsize quantity of capital to invest, so this is more worth watching than other funds' behaviors might be.

[cookie_monsta]

Do you think that Neumann feels like he got a raw deal?

[rattray]

I bet that he regrets doing business with Softbank, yes.

An anecdote I heard (unsure if true) was that Softbank had strongly encouraged Adam to focus on growth at the expense of profitability to a much higher degree, shooting for the stars much more than he otherwise would have done.

If I was Icharus and someone else had given me wings and told me fly much higher, I'd have myself to blame but I'd still be upset and filled with regret.

[wastedhours]

> some dumb decisions

I think the relevance is in the definition of some.

Lots of people had an inkling it was a lot of smoke and mirrors, "tech company this" "we're a platform that", with a lot of weirdness alongside - but then the IPO dropped and confirmed every single assumption and it turned out truth was more ridiculous than fiction.

The larger relevance is how completely unworthy businesses are sprung into a position by cheap VC cash when the foundations are made of custard and spaghetti. Wrap in the "cult of personality" with a seemingly deluded founder and you have the SV equivalent of a soap opera.

Alongside that, it's also a dramatic pantomime as to how said investors are trying to optimise an acquisition without the optics of a failing business. We was a poster child for the Vision Fund, and Softbank has to play this game delicately.

It's fascinating to watch it play out - this isn't just a case of a large business that's fallen on hard times. This is a story about a (hopefully) unique company that should never have worked in the first place, somehow navigating a black swan moment, and potentially turning into a real business.

[skinnymuch]

Definitely I think it has to be that the company was trying to go public. With S-1 filing meaning they wanted to within a month. I also think it’s possible if WeWork IPO’ed in late 2018 or right before Lyft in 2019 and/or the “valuation” never spiked to $47B, it could’ve gone public.

One problem is their revenue doubled in the past year while maintaining losses which is a good thing. They wouldn’t have had that same giant revenue to boast about if the S-1 was filed 3 quarters earlier.

Nonetheless, actually giving out the S-1 makes this fun and juicy news. Having SoftBank/Vision Fund behind it, and billions in funding from other investors as well makes it even more interesting. The founders and their corruption and bullshit, specifically Neumann, add on to this as well.