[pvaldes]

Well, is your opinion that people does not vote thinking in their best interest.

In all democracies people speak freely about what they want with their vote. Enquiries don't count. Theaters with rigged ballots should not count. Real elections is how people choose freely, and the most accurate data that we can have. Everything else is propaganda and brag about your millions of follobots in twitter.

If you vote parties against independence you don't support independence. Point. A referendum will not change that. Four legal elections in five years are more than enough to make this point clear.

If you vote PACMA, the animalist party that don't even consider independence in their program, you want stopping animal cruelty and don't support independence either. Podemos don't even know if they should be called "Unidos Podemos" or "Unidas igual Podrían".

Maybe tomorrow everybody will vote independence, but this is not data currently. Is possible also that nobody will do.

And we should not forget that not all people that participated in separatist acts are separatists. "Some people just want to see the world burning". A 13% of the people detained in warcelona were european foreigners with a past interest in anarchy and trained in urban war. They couldn't care less about Cuckooloonian nation, and came for the thrills, food and free TVs.

Spain is much more than that, and is easy to find lots of perfectly nice places with great people that will not act as holier than thou all the time.

[icebraining]

> is your opinion that people does not vote thinking in their best interest.

No, that's the (in my view, paternalistic) view of the people who claim the independentist Catalonians are all just puppets in the hands of a few evil leaders.

Tactical voting means they are, in their own best interest, choosing either the least bad option, or an option that will get them one step towards their ultimate goal, and voting for Autonomy in 1977 is consistent with that.

> If you vote parties against independence you don't support independence. Point.

Maybe. Which parties stated they were openly against independence in 1977, and how many votes did they get?

The rest of your post seems to be about the current situation, which is not what I asked about. If I want opinions on that by Spanish people, I can just ask half of my family.

[pvaldes]

> Which parties stated they were openly against independence in 1977, and how many votes did they get?

I don't know. I don't live in the past, but take in mind that is a different world in 2019.

In 1977 Jordi Pujol was a well respected citizen and everybody and their dog loved it. Today we know that was also a criminal, judged for bribery, influence peddling, tax crime, money laundering, prevarication, embezzlement and falsehood.

Their sucessor, Arthur Mas was "da bomb" in 2002. Now has also a criminal record, burned millions of euro in many doubtful adventures, and is inhabilited by disobedience.

The sucessor of Mas, Puigdemont, is a walking joke that pushed catalonian people to the clift border and declared the republic, just to suspend it two seconds later. (Surprise! I was just joking all this time!). He escaped to Belgium with his tail between his legs, and has an euroarrest warrant aiming to judge him for several non-trivial crimes

The sucessor of Puigemont, Torra is a mess that has encouraged people to disobey the same government that represents. He blocks roads in the morning and send the police against the people that block roads in the evening. Under the excuse of being opressed by Franco, youngsters had caused damages by 2.5 million euro in Barcelona, and now Torra is disperately searching how to gracefully stop the situation that he has purposely created.

Times had changed and this emperor is looking uglier and more naked each minute. Is always nice to talk with the family, but everybody can benefit from an external and wider point of view

[icebraining]

> I don't know. I don't live in the past, but take in mind that is a different world in 2019.

Yes, but this thread started with a claim about the past, which I asked what it was based on. It's not nice to derail it to push your own opinions.

> Is always nice to talk with the family, but everybody can benefit from an external and wider point of view

I was just making the point that I'm not some foreigner reading about Catalonia on a couple of Salon articles. I get plenty of points of view from Spanish newspapers, TV, books, friends, coworkers, and random people I meet during my annual stay in my family home.