[rolltiide]

It is a deliberate misinformation campaign.

There are multiple issues being conflated (flavored vapes advertised to minors, vapes causing deaths) and kneejerk reactions from governments are occurring because they are not being paid off enough by the companies selling similar products.

[autoexec]

I'm kind of torn on this.

On one hand it seems ridiculous to me when I read that the FDA is investing Juul for advertising to minors citing the fact that their ads included "bright colors" and young adult models as evidence of that. That's very clearly bullshit, and we wouldn't hold anyone else to that insane standard.

On the other hand, it also seems insane that the tobacco industry knew their product was both addictive and killing people, and that they lied about that for decades even spending massive amounts of money trying to intentionally mislead people into thinking otherwise, but instead of jailing executives and breaking up companies like Philip Morris/Altria we just let them continue to go on killing people for profit with barely a slap on the wrist.

I'd say that given their actions, the tobacco industry doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, that everything they do should be considered first in the worst possible light, and that we'd be crazy not to question their motives at every opportunity.

I just can't bring myself to be sympathetic to the industry now even when I can see how people are overreacting. I realize there are new players in the game today, and entire secondary industries are getting caught up in the whole vaping thing too, but at the same time, anyone working anywhere near the tobacco industry should expect it. If we'd gone after them properly instead of letting them off the hook for 40 years of lies and countless deaths maybe I'd feel differently, but here we are.

[rolltiide]

What are you torn about?

Governments are banning Juuls overnight and not cigarettes. Even with Altria - an incumbent - as an investor it isnt preventing this curbstomping.

The relative morality is my main point.

You are talking about the entire nicotine/tabacco industry and that plays into this as well but its not really the point here. Yes theyve slithered into our society and nothing is going to be done about that. But the observation with e-cigs just highlights how fast anything could be done, which is sad.

[autoexec]

> What are you torn about?

Well, on one hand I don't like feeling manipulated and this feels like manipulation with the media being disingenuous by blaming vaping itself for some bad black market products and constantly fear mongering for views and clicks. For months there have been literal protests going on against vaping. I seriously question if they're being paid. I don't know how vaping could possibly be what drives people to take to the streets in anger over everything else that's been going on. It's all a bit sketchy how strongly they've been beating anti-vape messages into our heads. And I don't even have a reason to be oversensitive to it, I don't vape. If the entire vaping industry died off tomorrow I wouldn't be impacted in the slightest.

It is the tobacco industry however and whatever comes, they pretty much have it coming to them. I can't really feel bad if the new fun cool way to consume their product is being bullied. Vaping solves a lot of issues people have with cigarettes. It's less stinky, tastes better, and is far more discrete (very important these days when people can't light up anywhere). I know some people think they are the ones behind the anti-vape movement, but if vaping dies the tobacco industry will suffer for it.

[juped]

"Bright colors" and young adult models are the playbook that worked on cigarettes - they're just reusing proven tactics.

[autoexec]

I guess the issue is that they are the exact same proven tactics everyone uses no matter who they are marketing to. Bright colors attract attention and young healthy people sell products. Companies that have zero interest in marketing to children employee both regularly in ads/media.

[juped]

To be clear, I mean accusing tobacco companies of marketing to children because they have "bright colors" etc. is a proven strategy to extract big settlements from tobacco companies.