[justaduderr]

OK, are you going to post about the many US atrocities as well? Slavery, extermination of the indigenous population, redlining, Jim Crow, exploitation of illegal immigrant labor, etc. Keep in mind this isn't even counting what the USA does abroad.

China is bad, but USA is bad too. Make no mistake.

[5trokerac3]

Everything from that list is from within the last 60 years. While China was murdering between 60 to 100 million of its citizens, America passed the Civil Rights Act.

[justaduderr]

I don't have too much time to educate you on these things but just to note:

Re: "60 to 100 million of its citizens" is just straight up wrong. There was a Great Famine in China* - Mao did not murder up to 100 million citizens. Are you serious? Your own source says as much.

Re: Social Credit System (SCS) - By pretty much every metric the SCS has not resulted in massive discrimination on the scale of racism and sexism in the United States. However this may change. But for now this is not really relevant in terms of making a comparison.

Funny enough I don't really like China that much (or any large country) for a variety of reasons, but your reasoning is both absurd and factually incorrect. It's literally propaganda. Please educate yourself before making outlandish claims. China murdered 60 to 100 million of its citizens? Jeez - the American education system is an embarrassment.

* Though the famine should not and cannot be compared to murder, anyone who has read the literature probably knows that Mao's overzealous policies during the period probably increased the death toll, but even so that cannot be said to be "murder". Saying such is propaganda and more importantly, wrong.

---

Also, to say American passed the Civil Rights Act without mentioning the Civil War is silly. The Civil War killed about 2% of the USA population. So if America was the size of China (which it wasn't), that would be like 12 million people dying, approximately half of the population generally accepted to have died during the 1960 in China (during the Great Famine).

I won't bother comparing Xinjiang to Guantanamo Bay...

[MikeHolman]

Mentioning the Civil War is ridiculous. It was a war that happened 150 years ago, and it resulted in the end of slavery in America. It's not like it was an act of oppression.

And by all accounts the situation in Xinjiang is much worse than Guantanamo Bay. To start, Guantanamo Bay at its peak had under 800 people imprisoned. Xinjiang re-education camps are estimated to hold 1-3 million people. So the scale is massively different. It's hard to know exactly what happens in the camps, but the reports of torture and organ harvesting don't paint a rosy picture.

[filoleg]

>the American education system is an embarrassment.

Must be why all the elites from China send their kids to get college education in the US.

[behringer]

They do that to teach them English culture and the language, since china is an export economy. They already had a proper education in China before they ever show up. Unless they're at an elite school, the work is relatively easy, so they can focus on language.

[ianleeclark]

> America passed the Civil Rights Act

It's important to note that America didn't pass the Civil Rights Act, it was forced to pass it by an unjustly subjugated population that had revolutionary potential. As a white settler state, America would have been fine to keep on going with an internal colony as far as it could have--this is literally the major precursor of the civil war.

[behringer]

The US jails something like 5 times as many people as China. That's today, not 60 years ago.

[Rebelgecko]

I believe that stat is only true for Chinese people that are in prisons and have been convicted of crimes. If you count ALL people being held against their will (e.g. including the Xinjiang "Reeducation" camps), China has more than the US.

[behringer]

Source?

[Rebelgecko]

China is coy about the actual numbers, but US Asst Sec of Defense for Indo-Pacific Affairs estimates that as many as 3 million people are being held in the reeducation camps (link below). That alone is already more than the total US prison population. Even if you prefer to go with the more conservative estimates (which are mostly around 1-2 million), that's more than the US prison population when combined with the 2 million or so Chinese in traditional prisons.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationca...

[NotSammyHagar]

What about it-ism doesn't get us anywhere. The US is bad but has aspirations, historical, theoretical and actual of recognizing mistakes and doing better. Among many things we recognize today in the us is that it was wrong to imprison Japanese people in the US in ww2, Jim Crow laws were wrong, slavery was wrong and we changed the constitution to deal with it (and fought a war), changed laws against Jim Crow type things.

The us has owned up to a lot of historical mistakes. China? Not so much.

I don't see China saying they can let Tibet go back to the way it was before they invaded. I don't see them agreeing to disagree with Taiwan. I don't see them letting HK go away and be free, when it's clear a significant number of people there want there. And then they have re-education/concentration camps for their Muslim minority. That's a clear attempt a genocide and destruction of their culture. The us did this against native americans to our everlasting shame. At least we have made some attempts to deal with that mistake.

[behringer]

What aboutism is wrong, so it's fine we're losing 4bn because of this issue, not fixing our society, and pretending it's ok just because china's not fixing theirs either.

[justaduderr]

> What about it-ism doesn't get us anywhere.

This is false. Energy, money, time and resources are better used focusing on domestic concerns that can easily be resolved, not foreign matters.

The USA has never owned up to anything without violent protests, and as you say yourself, a war. China will have the same growing pains I'm sure. I won't bother list what USA has done in foreign nations, but suffice it to say it's pretty bad.

The point is that people don't actually care about the bad things, it's just typical anti-China sentiment being fed by major publications.