[jdm2212]

There are two separate issues with China banning memes:

1. it's symptomatic of Xi's government being able to do anything it wants to (including killing people to harvest their organs) without any checks and balances

2. it violates our ideal of freedom of speech

One of those is a far more serious problem than the other. A democratic society can fix laws that don't live up to its ideals. A lawless, autocratic society cannot.

[jimclegg]

>A democratic society can fix laws that don't live up to its ideals. A lawless, autocratic society cannot.

China has mechanisms to change laws but they have to be routed through the proper channels. From what I understand, individuals can complain all they want, as long as they don't organize outside of these designated channels.

This definitely pisses off the % of western governments that use "grassroots" movements as an attack vector to undermine unfavorable foreign governments.

[blaser-waffle]

To paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff: "USA and Soviet Union have same freedom. In USA I can I can drive to White House and complain about Reagan; in Soviet Russia I can also drive to Kremlin and complain about Reagan."

[SomeOldThrow]

Complaining about Reagan didn’t do much to protect us anyway, we gave our power away willingly.

[jdm2212]

The only effective way to change laws is to organize. "you can change laws, but you can't organize to do so" is in effect saying you cannot change the laws. And that's by design -- China is an autocracy.

[stickfigure]

"Individuals can complain all they want, as long as it is in their own homes, with no more than two individuals present, and they must be blood-related."

[PKop]

Both points are perfectly encapsulated in UK hate speech laws.

They subvert free speech with the heckler's veto, and there's nothing anyone can do about them, "democratic" or not.

[jdm2212]

People in the UK can vote out the government and change the laws that way. People in China can't.

[munk-a]

The US is hardly perfect...

1. The US has long operated offshore prisons where human rights are routinely abused (though harvesting organs is never a thing I've heard of happening in them)

2. The US routinely silences comedians when they're reported to say something impolite or against the grain - remember Kathy Griffin?

[disease]

What is your source on the United States government taking action against Kathy Griffin?

[munk-a]

The US Government publicly shamed her over her post - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/86987479808781926... this lead to hardships for her[1] that I believe aren't debated?

As per statements by the white house[2] and other branches[3] that twitter account is an official channel of US Government policy, I think this is reasonable and generally accepted[4].

1. https://ew.com/news/2017/06/02/kathy-griffin-donald-trump-br...

2. https://time.com/4808270/sean-spicer-donald-trump-twitter-st...

3. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/14/doj-donald-...

4. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccaheilweil1/2017/07/11/tru...

[jdm2212]

If you don't like Donald Trump's conduct in office (I don't, incidentally) you and millions of others can organize and likely prevent him from getting reelected. If you don't like Xi Jinping's conduct in office...

[gyuserbti]

...you can organize and likely prevent him from getting reelected if you don't have to deal with gerrymandering, can get votes enough to overcome the vote weighting of the electoral college, and if there's no foreign sabotage of the election.

I agree China and the US are in radically different places, but there are serious problems of some degree in many places right now.

[munk-a]

If I was a Chinese citizen I probably 1. wouldn't be around anymore or 2. not be nearly the same person - I'm quite thankful I grew up in a society that let me read Marx for Beginners[1] at a young age and has allowed me to express myself - I support the HK protestors without any reservations and, even with the oval office being as it is, I think the US's government is far more fair and held to account than China's - still, it is counterproductive to the freedoms of America to constantly exaggerate those freedoms and hold patriotism over honesty. America may be a shining city on a hill but up close it's pretty clear to see the parts that are tarnished - we can work to fix those issues if we accept that they are issues, or we can insist there are no issues and let those hard fought for freedoms get taken away.

1. It's pretty hilarious and approachable for young minds, here's an archive version for the curious https://archive.org/details/MarxForBeginners-English