[boomboomsubban]

>China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants

1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want.

[throwaway1997]

It's controlled outrage. The Chinese government controls what they see and therefore where the outrage is directed towards. The average Chinese person either doesn't know about Tinanmen or agrees with it, but are outraged by this.

[age_of_stone]

"The average Chinese person either doesn't know about Tinanmen" I am an average Chinese person but I know it since I was a teenager. I suggest that you don't assume that Chinese people is controlled like puppet, that's simply wrong.

[aembleton]

How did you find out about the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests? Was it at school? From family or friends? Online? Do you use a VPN?

I'm curious because I don't know how that information would spread in China or if it is talked about much.

[age_of_stone]

I watched the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests on China official TV daily when it was broadcast until the end of May 1989. I was a teenager at that time. we talked about it at school. we talked about at home. we talked about it heavily at college. we just didn't talk much about it publicly. nobody got arrested by simply talking about it, which may not be like what you might be thinking.

when I was young, there was no GFW. I remembered that I visited lots of western medias about it to better understand it by two-sided stories. and I believe that I did better understand it.

I do use VPN as many of others when I am in China. It's a common thing.

[PavlovsCat]

> we just didn't talk much about it publicly

"just"? Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all. What you just talk about with your friends or family is as relevant to the public sphere as your private thoughts are.

[age_of_stone]

"Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all."

buddy, being so cynical is not really helpful for any constructive discussion. not mention that I was telling a fact not argument.

even in many democratic countries, in terms of political correctness, you don't want to talk about some subjects in public. Does it really mean not being able to say it at all?

[Jommi]

The moment you want you access the internet as a chinese kid, you can google tianmen and get information about it. Its not of course always the correct information that is on the first results, but its not like its completely wiped.

[age_of_stone]

you are right. but there is bigger question of what information is "correct". no offense, it'd be naive to treat the first result of google result as being correct. we all know there is such a thing called SEO.

[Jommi]

Yes. That's what I said:

>Its not of course always the correct information that is on the first results

That seems like it would pertain to any google search query tho. I don't think I ever just click a single link when I'm trying to find information about a subject.

[Jommi]

This is absolutely wrong.

[chronic71819]

> 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want.

Only in your own thoughts and dreams (for now). You're not allowed to outrage on Weibo or WeChat. Is this correct?

[boomboomsubban]

I highly doubt they'd object to people angrily repeating the state's position to an American country.

[ekianjo]

Most of them are brainwashed by one party politics and one party news in their own country so I am not sure their outrage means anything.

[age_of_stone]

how many Chinese people have you ever talked to before you say "most of them are brainwashed"? If more than 1 billion people are brainwashed in the era of Internet, either 1. it is a huge success of Chinese government or 2. it's not the truth.

As we all know, VPN is very popular in China. It's just an easy job to access information out of Great Fire Wall.

thinking critically, could you be "brainwashed" by some degree when you assume more than 1 billion people got brainwashed?

[ekianjo]

vPN is very popular in China? In what range? Thousands of users? Hundreds of thousands? Dozens of millions? Hundreds of millions? The scale matters completely for the discussion.

And brainwashing does not start with the internet. education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US.

Brainwashing works, its not even a remotely disputable claim, we have had two large countries going thru major brainwashing efforts in the 20th century with the Third Reich and the Soviet Union and the results were very convincing in terms of how effective brainwashing can be. Not sure why you would discount brainwashing when China went thru the Cultural Revolution to basically make all dissident voices extinct or irrelevant.

[boomboomsubban]

>education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US

How much of your belief that the Chinese are brainwashed people who's opinions should be ignored came from school and media?

[age_of_stone]

if you don't know or doubt how popular VPN is used in China, it indicates that you know little about modern China. everyone I know uses VPN or know how to use VPN if they need. as for exact scale, I'd leave that to you. you could easily figure that out as there are ton of such information online.

If brainwashing really worked greatly like you said, Soviet Union would still exist now. It was their people who overthrew Soviet Union.

exactly because of China going through the disaster like Cultural Revolution, many people just don't believe these propaganda anymore.

my point was not there is no brainwash. it's everywhere including China and US. my point was in the era of Internet and the popular use of VPN in China, i don't think the brainwash really works greatly like you'd think.

[ekianjo]

So how many millions of VPN users please?

[age_of_stone]

didn't you see this "as for exact scale, I'd leave that to you. you could easily figure that out as there are ton of such information online"?

i encourage you to find out the answer by yourself.

[wglb]

I have often wondered about the fact that 'outrage' and 'outage' are only off by one letter.