[diego]

So many misunderstandings around this. For one, in the US we have free speech. That means that you can say anything you want, but you have to accept that you may lose customers for saying it. It doesn't matter if you believe that your customers shouldn't be pissed off. It's the Chinese in this case, but it could be any other relevant group.

Second, perhaps because most Americans haven't been to China and cannot read Chinese, they can't really appreciate this situation. Hong Kong is a part of China, and they are in the middle of a transition period from British rule. It's inevitable that they will be incorporated into the country, and it's really too late to try to turn that around. They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, and it is what it is. The rest of China (not just the government) wants them to assimilate, and it will happen. If you live in Hong Kong and you don't like that, really your only reasonable option is to move. It's not a given that the protestors are in the "right" and it's not a given that there is a right side on this. Just misaligned interests.

[khc]

> They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off,

As if this was a choice for people from Hong Kong

[Jommi]

How was it not a choice? HK living standards rocketed when it was the only place for China and international capital to meet. The whole nation prospered from it, and now they are paying this price. Thats what this situation looks like to me unfortunately.

[99chrisbard]

> they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China.

Hong Kong was always going to return to China in 1997 due to a British-China deal. There's no way for HK to NOT return to China.

[beerandt]

Technically the Hong Kong lease was perpetual, only the new territories lease expired in 97. But the British didn't want to deal with another partitioned colony, so they just gave up the whole thing.

[chadcmulligan]

Isn't that up to the people of HK?

[khuey]

Short of an actual revolution no.

[chadcmulligan]

that to is up to the people of HK, if thats what it takes

[brokensegue]

by that argument everything is always "up the people". "well if they don't like $X they can always revolt."

revolt isn't a very flexible means of expressing the wills of the people.

[chadcmulligan]

But if the people in power use force to prevent a legitimate discussion then the only avenue left is revolution. There is no legitimate way for the people to involve in discussion, the HK protesters want democracy, the Chinese government doesn't. What alternative do the HK citizens have apart from not be part of China?

Edit: further there is no way to express dissent in China, the HKers are taking their life in their hands by expressing dissent. I can think of no time this happens in the west.

[brokensegue]

A people of an area have a right to self determination. They never had a real opportunity to express that. So, why should they be forced to leave their home instead of just granting them this right?

What does the supposed "inevitability" of anything have to do with what should happen?

Any argument that employs "well just move if you don't like it" is probably wrong.