[emerongi]

The real SEO is getting backlinks. They dominate every other aspect. Getting a high rank through "natural" SEO is really hard.

I know someone who makes $12MM/year from high-ranking websites in extremely competitive keywords... and it's all about peddling links, really. The first page of results rarely has any correlation with quality (of information/product) and more than likely the correlation is actually negative. You will find content written by non-experts who mostly just summarize Wikipedia articles, but littered with unimportant info to hit keywords. Searching for a product? First page will be dominated by whoever has more $$.

I grew up with Google and it really feels like it was a different time back then. I Googled "how to make a website" as a teenager, found out about PHP and started studying PHP documentation. From there I expanded into other languages and eventually built a career. Today you Google "how to make a website" and you will be guided through a WordPress installation on a hosting website with a $5 monthly subscription. That's literally a website by the guy I mentioned making $12MM/year - he takes a cut from each referral.

[dclusin]

Any thoughts on https://millionshort.com ? I've seen it mentioned here. I've thought about using it for stuff, but most of my searches are programming queries which google is actually really good at. It's noticeably better than DDG for programming because it usually infers correctly which language I'm talking about. But as you said, perhaps not so good for PHP? Also I use an ad blocker, so perhaps I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

[emerongi]

It doesn't help much. Most notably, it even removes credible sites like Wikipedia.

Programming queries are a completely different thing. I'm talking about queries like "plumber in X", "build website", "which laptop to use" etc - queries where there's a very direct path from search to money being spent. Those queries are completely littered, you can just skip 10 pages and maybe you will find some actual professionals or enthusiasts with actual information.

[Jommi]

>Those queries are completely littered, you can just skip 10 pages and maybe you will find some actual professionals or enthusiasts with actual information.

Isn't the whole point of the linked website to do this?

[joegahona]

> I know someone who makes $12MM/year from high-ranking websites in extremely competitive keywords... and it's all about peddling links, really.

I am curious what you mean by "peddling links"?

> The first page of results rarely has any correlation with quality (of information/product) and more than likely the correlation is actually negative.

Isn't the first page of results supposed to be more about relevance than quality?

[anon1m0us]

Peddling links means networking with people who you can pay to link key words in their existing content or new content to your content. For example, I've had businesses contact me and say, "hey, for $100 we'll pay you to link these two words in your blog post to our website."

And also vice versa where you reach out to others to sell keywords in your content to them to improve their SEO.

> Isn't the first page of results supposed to be more about relevance than quality?

According to whom? What google tells you? If google made more money sending you to a web page with regurgitated content on it surrounded by adwords that would actually send you back to google to click on an ad making them more money, why would they send you to a high quality original source that was written in 1999 by someone who cared about the topic and got them zero revenue?

[shostack]

Sites like these are inherently fragile if they derive the majority of their revenue by trying to game SEO. Not saying there is no opportunity there, but being one algorithm update away from second page results or worse means your business has a lot of risk associated with it.

Does your friend have any other channels working profitably?

[anon1m0us]

Most people would think f u money after a year of gaming the system to be a good direction to have taken.

[IAmGraydon]

>I know someone who makes $12MM/year from high-ranking websites in extremely competitive keywords... and it's all about peddling links, really.

How are these sites monetized?

[emerongi]

A combination of ads and referral links. Ads are not Google Ads (or similar), but sold directly, no middle-man.

The business very starkly displays a core truth: if you really know how to do SEO, you will run your own websites instead of selling "SEO services".

[petra]

Running your own websites works in some niches. Very crowded ones, probably.

In others , if you don't have a well run business with a competitive offer, SEO won't help much.

[ceejayoz]

I get a little joy out of replying to "first page of Google, guaranteed!" email spam asking why they're not on the first page for "SEO".