[kmonsen]

I don't think we disagree?

Note that there has historically been another way, to force the oppressor to be brutal enough that they, or the people sent to do it, will turn on the government. This worked in India against the British and almost worked in Tiananmen, rural army units had to be called in. I don't think it will work currently against China, but it is the only thing HK protestors are willing to do which I respect them for.

[verttii]

Yeah it's a gamble. It didn't work against the USSR in 1968 but it did work with the Baltics in 1991.

China is as strong and determined as ever, I really don't see any way the protesters would get what they ultimately want.