[iherbig]

I think that what you are saying here doesn't necessarily serve as a counterpoint to the GP's point. Rather, it's only an additional piece of evidence. Where GP referred to things like a parent being sick serving as a downward pressure in the effort to improve one's circumstances the point is one of externalities which are not typically accounted for.

And in this case, the externality you're bringing up is that oftentimes being raised poor means you're being raised in an anti-intellectual environment. And that externality is something that a lot of poor people have to deal with.

It's another instance in which the game appears to be rigged against those from a poor background.

[malvosenior]

By far the best thing people from a poor background can do to better themselves is to fight the culture they are surrounded by. This is why I say the parent post is not "helpful". When things seem hopeless, why fight? It took a tremendous amount of strength and faith in myself to ignore literally everyone I knew and do what I thought was best. I know other people are capable of this as well, even if not to the degree I was. It would be helpful if there was a narrative that it is possible. That reading and self-drive can help you.

"Rich people stacked the deck against you and there's nothing you can do about it" is not helpful in any way. I saw one of the biggest issues was people feeling sorry for themselves and feeling helpless. This is why I react negatively when people who are clearly trying to help poor people do it in ways that don't espouse personal responsibility. It's well meaning, but counterproductive.

[akiselev]

> "Rich people stacked the deck against you and there's nothing you can do about it" is not helpful in any way.

Does anyone even say that?

It's not rich people stacking the deck, it's nature. The rich just happen to have a lot more tools (money) available to deal with that deck.

> It took a tremendous amount of strength and faith in myself to ignore literally everyone I knew and do what I thought was best.

You even touch on it here, so clearly you are aware that your struggles had nothing to do with rich people (except maybe tangentially) but with the environment you were in. That's what people talk about when they talk about the deck being stacked against someone.

[malvosenior]

Right, I agree with you. In so many ways the deck is stacked. What I'm saying is that by far the number one thing people can do to improve their situation is to work hard and fight the prevailing culture. Nothing else will provide gains or opportunity like that. Even if someone fails, it's really the best chance they will have.