[cheese4242]

Not really.

With his pithy comment, lawnchair_larry touches on an interesting aspect of this discussion. Many of those who support mass 3rd-world immigration (engaging in much grandstanding and moral preening in the process) are entirely removed from the actual consequences of it. They have no "skin in the game" so to speak as they know 3rd-world immigrants will not be settling in their neighborhoods (or guest bedrooms) anytime soon.

[anigbrowl]

Utter BS, a specious argument we've heard a million times before (often from Larry, who has been here a long time). You should go for a more subtle sty;e, right wing trolls are always endorsing pithiness, perhaps because of Andrew Anglin's fondness for that adjective in his Daily Stormer trolling guides. I'm sure you would not wish to be mistaken for keeping such noisome company.

[cheese4242]

Sounds like you are the expert. Will have to take your word on it.

It's interesting phenomena though, isn't it? Those who praise diversity and immigration the loudest are often those most insulated from it. Why is that? Why don't those people move to those diverse, ethnic neighborhoods they claim to love so much?

They seem to only care for the abstract idea of it all, not the reality.

[dane-pgp]

> Those who praise diversity and immigration the loudest are often those most insulated from it.

Do you have any data to support that assertion? Someone could claim just as confidently that the people most comfortable with diversity and immigration are those who have had (assumedly positive) exposure to it. That would seem just as valid a hypothesis, except there is actually some evidence that supports it, at least in one political context:

http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-areas-with-low-...

[anigbrowl]

Doesn't sound like anyone I know. Perhaps you have had a different experience.

[jjcc]

Uncontrolled immigration will cause the dispute between 2 parties like you and Larry, and polarization of the society which neither party can convince the the other one.

I'm not making a judgement about which party is correct or wrong. I'm just saying that there's an high order problem being ignored by a lot of people.

[lawnchair_larry]

I just want to point out that I didn’t actually say that I oppose immigration or refugees. This is the internet in 2019, so unfortunately that means we assume that anything other than unwavering support for one tribe means you’re a member of the enemy tribe.

Like most issues, I’m personally more on the fence than I am in either camp. I do think it’s worth challenging someone when they make comments that take such strong positions on complicated issues, particularly when they are someone else’s problem.

Likewise, I don’t support the border wall. But that’s an easy position for me to take, because as far as I can tell, it doesn’t affect my life. However, I’m not in a position to assume anything about the character or motivations of those who live near the border and have strong opinions about it.

And I do find it odd that when it comes to judging the character and motivations of others, so many are willing to give more benefit of the doubt to foreigners than they are for their fellow countrymen with a different political affiliation. I mean, consider that it would be a statistical miracle for America to be the only country with so many “shitty” people. If you think half of the US are deplorable Nazis, then it stands to reason that the worst half of any other country is approximately as bad, so letting them in indiscriminately has to be at least as bad as supporting Republicans. Believe it or not, but some countries have democratically elected people even worse than Trump. If you let in 10 random filipinos, that means 4 of them voted for fucking Duterte. And in case it needs to be said, I have nothing whatsoever against filipinos - they’re just a convenient example. If your belief system is such that people from other countries are fundamentally as good as us, you are dishonest if you reject that this means they must also be fundamentally as bad as us (which becomes increasingly problematic if you happened to decide the right are all Nazis).

I could have it completely wrong, but I just can’t help but think that maybe not everyone on the right is an evil greedy Nazi. Just maybe there are reasonable people over there whose circumstances have led them to a different view on some issues, and maybe the world isn’t black and white.

I do agree with your comment though, and that’s been happening elsewhere already.

[lawnchair_larry]

Oh my, have we met? I don’t recall commenting on this particular topic previously, let alone often.

I don’t see how my comment would be misunderstood as trolling, to be honest. I’m also far from right wing. My conservative friends, of which I do have a few, give me a hard time for being a lefty, so being called a Nazi is rather perplexing.

I do have a bit more exposure to this issue than most Americans, and admittedly, my experience has caused my view to shift heavily over the past several years.

Not so long ago, I would be calling people out for their lack of compassion on this issue. It turns out that real life is a lot more complicated.

I can be honest with myself. I do have sympathy, but I’m not going to open my home to a refugee. I am not going to sponsor one. I am not xenophobic. Hell, I wouldn’t want my sister-in-law to live with me either.

Unless you’re willing to do those things, then respectfully, I must declare that it is you who is full of BS. Much like I once was. You see, I wanted to see these people helped, and I thought that someone should help them, but it was only an abstract concept. I wanted someone else to do it. Now I realize I have no right or moral high ground to criticize anybody else unless I’m willing to do it myself.

If you in fact are willing and helping, then I will gladly accept criticism from you. And some people are. And I have great respect for them. But personally, I find it difficult enough to take care of my own family.

The backlash in places like Germany, Canada and the UK are very real. All of them poll left-leaning, yet recent polls indicate that the majority of the population feels that they have taken in too many immigrants. That isn’t because they all started reading the Daily Stormer, it’s because unlike you over there calling people out from the cheap seats, they have been faced with complexities that go along with mass immigration of people who are not able to easily integrate with their new society and be self-sufficient.

[anigbrowl]

Thank you for clarifying, and I'm sorry for having misread your position. I do in fact live out these values in very concrete fashion.