[sol_remmy2]

Don't you realize most people don't have the patience or ability to be a software engineer? That it is one of the most intellectually demanding jobs in society? And that 4 years computer science education is both expensive and difficult? Recognize your privilige - you are very smart and, for you, programming is easy. You are in the minority.

How about dental hygienists? Dental Hygienists made a median salary of $74,070 (2017). https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/dental-hygienist/... That's a very easy job that only requires 2 years of training. Shouldn't they be paid less so teachers can be paid more?

[Someone1234]

Teaching doesn't require patience or ability?

And where I went to college the 4 year CS degree was the same price as a 4 year education degree (aside from books/misc expenses). They both required the same number of credits, and class costs were largely normalized (with a few exceptions). Plus then teachers have to take the licensing exams and pay for your own background check/license.

If people really believe teachers have it made I strongly encourage them to give it a shot. We could always use more teachers. Plus then it might give a perspective on what it is like being a teacher (workload, hours, pay, conditions, stress, etc) and why the turnover rate is so high.

[shantly]

These days especially, get ready to get to know kids then have them not show up one day because they killed themselves. Or have one you taught a while back do the same when they're moved up a couple grades. A couple not show up because they're in the hospital because they took a bunch of pills. That kind of thing. Pretty often. It's really bad. And that's at a pretty tame suburban school—the ones with gang violence and such going on are even worse. Plus the kids at those sometimes threaten or even attack teachers, too, and verbal abuse from the kids (talking like 4th graders and up) is a daily occurrence. So that's fun.

[balfirevic]

> Teaching doesn't require patience or ability?

Working as a teacher certainly doesn't.

Source: had teachers (not in the US, just for the record).

[tathougies]

> And that 4 years computer science education is both expensive and difficult?

Exactly. As a point in favor of this worldview, I'll use my mother. She completed her economics and English degree in India (undergrad). She also completed her liberal studies undergrad and a graduate teaching credential again in the United States (they would not accept her foreign undergrad, so she had to repeat). She said that the teaching education was mostly a joke and her classmates absolute dunces. This was at a public university -- cal state fullerton, to be specific.

Ultimately, teaching education, even graduate education, is not difficult and mostly a joke, which is what is reflected in their salaries.

[shantly]

> Ultimately, teaching education, even graduate education, is not difficult and mostly a joke, which is what is reflected in their salaries.

Flip side: not enough people would put up with going through a "serious" teacher ed program to fill the demand, unless pay went way up. Not even close to enough.

[tathougies]

Flip side: intellectuals tend to like intellectual pursuits. Having a dumbed down teaching curriculum means turning these people away, not for monetary reasons, but for lack of stimulation that is easily accessible in the private sector.

My mother, and many other people I know who wanted to go into teaching, wanted to do so because they wanted to be teachers, not the pay. What turned them off to the profession is the incompetence demonstrated by most teachers, professors of education, and school administrators.

[shantly]

Sure, I get that, but you're not gonna replace all the incompetent people in education with competent ones just by making the relevant degree programs tougher. That's a lot of people. Pay would have to go up, probably quite a bit.

[tathougies]

I see no reason we can't do both. Remove the requirement of a teaching credential to teach and raise salaries for teachers who deliver results.